Llangollen Railway Autumn Steam Gala

As one of those who originally proposed the use of D9521 at the GWR 175 event, you can happily blame me for it!

At 34 years of age I consider myself as plainly a Railway Enthusiast and, like the Railway Magazine describes itself, a fan of 'everything that runs on rails'. I therefore feel it's right and proper to include this historic little machine as a small part of the celebrations of a predominantly steam GWR 175 event. The Gloucs and Warks had a good display of diesels at their wonderful event earlier this year. I believe if the full GWR story is to be told then you can't overlook internal combustion powered locos simply because you don't like them. They are really a mere footnote in the last 50 years or so of the fascinating GWR history, but an important one nonetheless.

There is no tit-for-tat use of diesel locos at a steam event to prove a point going on here. The enthusiast fraterntity needs to realise that all heritage railways are predominantly tourist attractions and that well over 95% of folk buying tickets are not 'cranks', they simply want a ride on a steam-hauled train through nice Countryside. There will still be a core market of these so-called 'normals' turning up at diesel weekends, so the provision of a steam locomotive is something many railways feel is important so they are catering for a broader cross section of their punters on a typical weekend.

If folk choose to boycott railways that pursue this strategy from either perspective - due to steam or diesel being used at a particular flavour of event, then it is they who will ultimately lose out; both in the short term from not seeing the locos they like and in the longer term when Railway's management decide it's not worth bothering organising specialist events that fail to make money and require many hundreds of hours of careful planning.

As a final point, we are considering the use of a Pannier with D9521 at our diesel weekend simply because we think it will be something of interest to Folk and will make for some super photos.

 

I suggested a Hymek or Warship for SSS2 (and yes i was serious ) but sadly got shot down in flames

I think the western Hydraulics have a good following and they were around at the end of steam

 

I'm at a loss to understand the importance of being 34 any more than I would be at a loss if somebody said my 66 was important, which it isn't. Neither does being any age give a person the right to impose on others simply because they have the power to do so.

The diesel is a footnote to GW history and that footnote wasn't a particularly glorious one; it is a footnote which could be served by having a static example on display.

I agree that preserved railways are primarily tourist attractions but it is also true that gala weekends are directed at enthusiasts not tourists therefore your comment here has no relevance. As far as the 'tit-for-tat' it seems to me that the railway is doing precisely what 'Robert Heath No6' was mentioning concerning the use of steam at a diesel gala.

Saying that, and I paraphase, your customers 'will lose out' if they don't enjoy the event, any event that the Llangollen Railway puts on is turning the matter on its head. If the Llangollen Railway or any other railway doesn't do what its customers, whether they be tourists or steam/diesel enthusiasts then the railway will suffer, not its customers. I am beginning to wonder if the Llangollen Railway isn't getting a bit big-headed here, a little too self centred.

Regrettably, I have already booked the B&B and done so on a 'no deposit' basis for three nights. I feel therefore that I cannot let Mrs Hughes down but I can make sure that I only go to the Llangollen Railway on the Saturday; there are other attractions for the railway enthusiast/tourist in North Wales. If the Langollen Railway wants to be as arrogant as your reply is, so be it, but you and your railway will not have my custom.

 

Is it worth mentioning the "rumour" that the 14's were (allegedly) designed around the design of a GWR/BR pannier tank chassis? I can get my coat if required......

 

Apart from 20 odd years of Westerns and then another 30 years (plus) of HSTs working the Great Western Mainline.

Those are my opinions, which I am just as entitled to express as you are. Please note that they are not those of the Llangollen Railway, nor am I speaking on the Railway's behalf, which you seem to think I am.

The final decision to use the Class 14 at the Railway was taken by the Board, not by me; I merely made the proposal to try and get more value for money from the transport costs for the locomotive's visit and hopefully provide another interesting piece of Swindon history for Folk to enjoy at an event celebrating the history to the GWR and Western Region of BR. If the feedback from our enthusiast customers is as pointed as yours, then similar things are unlikely to be repeated. People are listened to!

It's a shame that you have taken my comments in the way you appear to have done so, I do not wish to cause offence or see anyone avoid visiting the Railway.

I'm sorry if I sound arrogant, but I struggle with what I view as a rather blinkered approach to preservation, revolving 100% around specific areas of steam traction at the expense of everything else. Why so strong a response to anyone who thinks and wants to try something different? At the end of the day, the "Teddy Bear" is a very small part of a three day steam-led event.

The reason for highlighting my age was not meant to sound discriminatory, quite the opposite by pointing out that I was born and grew up in an era where the mainline Railway is 100% operated by diesel and electric traction. Steam power for me has always been something of great historical and mechanical interest, enjoyed through preservation, 16mm scale modelling and several thousand miles worth of mainline railtours. It is inevitable that I will have a different take on it from the generation who can remember it as the real deal, but as we all get older it's Folk from my era who are being encouraged to step up to the plate and help keep Heritage Railways alive in the future.


Cheers

 

Well I'm going to the Tanfield on the Saturday for their gala and was going to travel down from Newcastle early Sunday morning, I feel not anymore. I'll stick with my custom at the Tanfield for the weekend.

 

To add to my earlier comment, the diesel turn wouldn't put me off going, nor does a steam turn at a diesel gala (providing it's not on a diagram completely disproportionate to anything else, as per a recent 'diesel gala' elsewhere which had 50% of turns steam hauled). Tanfield has it both days for me too though I'm afraid :lol:

I personally like the idea of a pannier running with the 14 at the diesel gala (nothing wrong with a good pannier!), but I'm not sure it would go down too well with a lot of cranks...

 

Maybe in a couple of years at a future diesel weekend. ; D

 

You do seam to be missing the theme behind this event. It is a GW175 gala... Thus celebrating everything to do with the GWR. From broad gauge at the very start to what you see running on the great western main line today. It is not titled GWR gala (between 1903 and 1960 only).

The class 14 may have been unsuccessful in its design, but it is part of the history of the GW, so therefore has every right to run at the gala as does City of Truro.

Is it really that difficult to stand in the field and wait for it to pass by untill you can get you picture of a steam loco?

How will customers coming to this event not enjoy it, because 1 diesel loco has been added to the line up. They are getting more value for their money, as the Friday and Sunday would only have had 5 locos running.

I will be firing over the weekend, so please let us all know where you will be located, so i can pose for your pics!!!

 

No but is named 'autumn STEAM gala' maybe the name should be amended to 'autumn gala'. I would still have come if in Leeds but I'm not travelling all that way to risk seeing a diesel.

 

No, Martin I'm not being big headed, I'm simply a customer who knows what he wants. Going to a railway event in that sense is no different to going to Tesco. I'm a customer and a preserved railway or Tesco provide what I want or I don't buy there.

As far as the heritage railway movement being a broad church, of course it is. I do not disparage, and I have never disparaged, those who would wish to preserve diesels. But I do feel that I, the steam enthusiast, should have a choice as should the diesel enthusiast. Neither they nor I should have the traction we do not like shoved down our throats in a take-or-leave-it attitude. The practice of having steam engine at diesel galas and vice-versa should cease. The movement is a broad church but it should not be a vehicle for those who proselytise. When I go to a steam gala I go because that's what I want. I stay away from diesel galas because that isn't what I want. It's dead simple.

As for the 'Westerns' being on the Western main line for twenty years it is true. It is also true that the 'Castles' were on the Western main line for forty until they wore out, but the Westerns were withdrawn prematurely because they weren't good enough. Non of the WR diesel hydraulics were as good as their German equivalents, but the D95XX was particularly dreadful. A total waste of taxpayers money.

As for the HSTs, they were not a Western Region design: the concept originated at Brighton; it was developed at Derby; production was at Crewe; usage was pretty well universal across the UK. They were, in my view, the first British diesel that could out perform the reciprocating steam engine, the first British diesel that could, and did, do what the steam engine couldn't do, cruise at 125mph.

No, these diesel hydraulic machines do not have a place when celebrating the GWR's 175th Anniversary. As pieces of engineering they are nowhere as good in their class as the GWR steam engines or as many, but by no means all, of the BR diesel electrics. We should be celebrating the brilliance of the GWR not the failures of its BR(W) successors.

Regards

 

Or as much because BR wanted to standardise the fleet (at least to some extent) by removing hydraulics... That and the 14s' intended work disappeared - they may not have been successful under BR but they were pretty damn useful in industry!

 

One diesel out on friday/sunday - go saturday.

This is a big fuss over nothing, not as if the Llangollen are replacing any steam loco with a diesel, they are just adding to the line up. The Class 14 looks like a steam loco pretty much and are the closest BR(W) diesel loco you could get to a steam loco, a direct replacement for 57xx pannier tanks. I bet D9521 won't get much action, probably 3 round trips at most, not 95% of the diagrams.

Also it will attract some more people along, say people who can't make the diesel gala as it is the same weekend as the WSR ASG, so they can go to the Llangollen's ASG and see the teddy in action, its a win win situation for the railway and people who want to visit.

Also I've noticed the people complaining are photographers not bashers. Yes you may buy a rover but I bet you don't go to the station cafe, shop etc and purchase other items from the railway which go into the funds to keep it up and running.

 

Hmm. I guess we need to overlook the extensive use of the class by the NCB, British Steel and others including the CTRL, where D9504, at around 40 years of age, helped build the UK's first high speed line and then went on to work at Whitemoor Yard, shunting 2000 ton ballast trains. Hardly a gross engineering failure in my book, but arguably a poor use of taxpayers money by dillusional post-War Politicians and BR Management for allowing their construction for a market that was drying up before their eyes.

Now, on the subject of taxpayer-funded BR folly, anyone for the logic behind the 9F, Clans, Brits , 71000 and the Class 40 when we had the ability to build electric railways and locos to hand such as Duchesses that could have easily gone on for a few years while we put the wires up!?

Taxi!

 

Couldn't have put it better myself!

 

Whatever you do Joshua, don't become a betting man. I very seldom spend less than £20 in the tourist traps and on my recent visit to North Wales I seem to have spent rather more than £150 at the WLLR, WHHR, FR and WHR in addition to tickets to ride, meals in the Spooner Restuarant, packs of sandwiches, soft drinks and what-have-you. It's going to take few weeks to read the books!

I have decided not to go to Llangollen at all. Instead a quickly concocted Plan B has an itinerary something like this. Leave home at around 9am on the Thursday, lunch in the 'King and Castle', Kidderminster and then on to the WLLR. At close of play on WLLR go to B&B. Friday Talyllyn; Saturday Ffestiniog; Sunday WLLR and home via 'King and Castle'.

This will mean that I can keep myself amused quite satisfactorily and I don't spend my money with people who won't provide what I want to buy, ie a weekend watching steam engines. Regrettably it does mean that the 'Betton Grange' and 'Unknown Warrior' projects will go without their customary donations as will the 80072 Group but that's just unfortunate - other people will get the dosh instead.

One day I hope the proselytising zealots who want to impose their diesels on the rest of the Preservation Movement will learn to grow up and be a much more liberal minded but I fear that is someway in the future. Until then I, and others like me, will have to do as I am doing. Shop somewhere else. The Llangollen Railway will be the loser not I.

Regards, and I did enjoy your film of the Bluebell 50th!

 

I do wonder how the inclusion of a single class 14 in the event actually prevents you from watching the remaining 7 steam engines? Anyway, I hope your visit to North Wales is enjoyable, despite missing out on what is going to be a great event at Llangollen.