Diesels on steam tours

Re: 71000 DUKE OF GLOUCESTER ON THE V.S.O.E

Enterprise
Thanks for your answer.

 

Re: September 5th Exeter Cathedrals Express changed again.... to 30th October!

 

Re: September 5th Exeter Cathedrals Express changed again.... to 30th October!

Think you may be in danger of pricing yourself out of the market by adding another 20% and you still cannot guarantee that there will be no need for diesel assistance (e.g. in case of dry weather / fire risk). Furthermore I can't see that you could guarantee "fast running" - that often depends on what paths you are given and has nothing to do with the load.

There has been an issue this year in that a number of larger locos have been out of action, meaning that less powerful locos (e.g. Black 5s) have sometimes had to stand in but they have generally coped very well with no assistance. I have been on 9 tours in the last 12 months with no diesel on any of them so it makes me wonder if we are exaggerating the issue or have I just been lucky. I have used my judgement in some cases though in that:

a) I avoid tours in very hot weather (difficult to predict I know)
b) I avoid tours in the leaf fall season
c) I avoid tours that have a diesel haulage section as the box is usually on the back for the rest of the trip to avoid light engine movements.

 

Re: September 5th Exeter Cathedrals Express changed again.... to 30th October!

I like to think I live in a world of honesty where a supplier provides what a customer has contracted to buy - that's a good world!

 

Re: 71000 DUKE OF GLOUCESTER ON THE V.S.O.E

Every time I risk a Northern Rail Class 142 or 150 I feel at more risk of failure than any steam tour I've been on but I don't see a box tagged on there just in case!

 

Re: September 5th Exeter Cathedrals Express changed again.... to 30th October!

Mountains and Molehills come to mind reading this thread with only Ralph seemingly touching reality, a broken rail seemingly put in a huge delay from the word go, certainly no fault of anyone involved with the charter that one.

As for the Diesel pushing, remember Steam is slow to accelerate compared to modern trains, once deeply out of path like today, with such a poor power to weight ratio it was only likely to get later as Signallers got it out the way of more regular traffic, having the Diesel shove reduces the risk of getting looped more so you actually have some time at the destination and don't end up arriving home at stupid o clock in the morning.

While im all for steam unassisted, i doubt most of those on board would want an arrival approaching the small hours because it wasn't quick enough to get out the way once out of path.

 

Re: September 5th Exeter Cathedrals Express changed again.... to 30th October!

Well take the damn kettle off and let the real engine get on with the job!

 

Re: September 5th Exeter Cathedrals Express changed again.... to 30th October!

dp266
I would agree with you,but if you advertised the train for a tractor would you get to fill the train for the same fare that has been paid for the A4.

 

Re: September 5th Exeter Cathedrals Express changed again.... to 30th October!

Doesn't fit the description anyway! Diesel Pushed is the most accurate... Just trying to make life easier all around

 

Re: September 5th Exeter Cathedrals Express changed again.... to 30th October!

I think the arrival home time is irrelevant as there was stop over time at Exeter. So an on time or near on time departure from Exeter would be in order.

 

Re: September 5th Exeter Cathedrals Express changed again.... to 30th October!

I think the issues are getting muddled as is often the way of it in NP threads. Given the circumstances, I don't think that there was anything wrong with the 37 pushing. However, I would prefer that steam tours were run without diesels. I try to avoid steam tours with diesels hung on the back and I am very disappointed if I get it wrong and end up on one. I have no objection to travelling on a diesel railtour that is advertised as such. I like Deltics, Westerns and 37s but not 47s and I know this is an irrational prejudice. My desire is to indulge my nostalgia for happy times in the past. Diesels in funny colours are not part of this romance. I am now looking forward to the Tin Bath; I hope Riley turns out two Fives in tip top order!

 

Re: September 5th Exeter Cathedrals Express changed again.... to 30th October!

Posted in error.

 

Re: September 5th Exeter Cathedrals Express changed again.... to 30th October!

Mirrors my sentiments in post #68 before people started trying to defend the indefensible in general. But it has been a giggle watching them...

 

Re: September 5th Exeter Cathedrals Express changed again.... to 30th October!

For a forum that I thought consisted of mainly steam enthusiasts, especially the elder ones amongst us, including myself, who remember steam in "proper" service, some people have got funny ideas about the running of steam specials & seem in favour of diesel usage. My interpretation of a main line steam special is reminisce the old days as near as possible, I allow for the fact 75mph is the top speed.

 

Cathedrals

If you think mainline steam today is about recreating the past then im afraid you are going to be dissapointed on a very regular basis. How many times do people need to hear that 'enthusiasts' only make up a tiny percentage of charter passengers to realise that if operators can salvage a decent day out at the cost of 100% steam haulage then that is what they are going to do, and should do?

Lets be quite clear - this isnt the 40's/50's/60's, its the 21st century. The privatised railway network has given steam open access to virtually the whole railway network, but with it comes costs and responsibilities. Trundling about when you've lost your path, racking up delay minutes, denying daytrippers and families most of the time at the destination and getting back after midnight is not a choice if there is a viable alternative - and sometimes that means assistance from a diesel.

Personally, if i was in the situation of having to choose between alienating the family groups whose children could be the future of preservation, or annoying a small group of diehard enthusiasts who think mainline steam does or should resemble the 50's and 60's (but will probably end up travelling again anyway a few weeks/months later), i know what i'd decide every time.

Chris

 

Re: September 5th Exeter Cathedrals Express changed again.... to 30th October!

Sorry but that's a very naive view, while it is possible to still be away on time from a layover, remember there's still has to be a certain amount of time taken to service and turn the loco, if you have less than enough time left to do that then your return journey will also be late so there is a knock on effect.

Lets do another hypothetical situation for aguements sake, a steam tour's running 90 mins late on the WCML towards Euston, there's a queue of 390's and 350's running under double yellow behind it, you have a 47 on the back which is current on tickover, you have two choices:

1) get a shove up to 75MPH to make the next loop or get out the way that bit quick and not cause too much delay

2) let the steam loco continue unassisted, taking a long time to reach 70mph, heavily delaying 4 Express workings, Virgin complain about delay minutes and being held up to Network Rail, Network Rail say no to more steam working on the route until punctuality/reliability is sorted out.

The National Network is not a 00 set where a delay means nothing, fouling passenger services on a regular basis is not a way to win friends and continyue Mainline running.

 

Re: September 5th Exeter Cathedrals Express changed again.... to 30th October!

THe trouble with this medium is that unless you are careful you can get sucked into an arguement with the younger generation who seem to have a much different opinion than the older ones.People are intitled to there opinions and if they feel that they are being short changed with a diesel pushing they are right.If someone says that in this modern! age we cannot expect anything different well frankly they are wrong because if you pay for something and you get something else that is bad business practice.
As I have said before,if you can't do something properly then don't do it at all.
This will not happen because there is too much easy money being made from the passengers that travel.

 

Re: September 5th Exeter Cathedrals Express changed again.... to 30th October!

So you're suggesting that the stop-over in Exeter be basically scrapped?

Firstly for many passengers, maybe even the majority, the destination forms part and parcel of the day out. Unlike the enthusiast Taliban, they've paid good money for a steam train trip to a place of interest and I'm pretty sure if you scrapped the stop-over the tour operator would get far more complaints that they would from enthusiasts about the box pushing. I'm an active volunteer but on tours I'll often take the missus and friends in posh class and they'd be well hacked off if they didn't get to spend time at the destination (plus I get a better chance of a droplight ). Obviously this assumes that a) there's a later path available, and b) you don't get back as stupid o'clock!

Secondly, the support crews work hard enough as it is, but you'd expect them to rush their work , with all the attendent risks that involves, including the quality of fire-cleaning etc? What if there'd been a problem with coal on the out-leg and they needed to completely drop and remake the fire? Failure to prep the engine properly would lead to even more pushing from the box, not less.

Please consider others before hitting the keyboard. Iain

 

Re: September 5th Exeter Cathedrals Express changed again.... to 30th October!

If we want to play on the big railway, we have to live by the big railway rules. If the arrival into Exeter is late it does not affect the scheduled departure time unless it arrives after it should have left (doubtful this would happen. It means that the stopover time in Exeter is reduced so that an on time departure is made. Stopover time is usually significant to facilitate customer seeing some attractions as well as time to service the loco and turn.