Lighting up - how long?

How long is it recommended for lighting up an 0-6-0 saddle tank?

Recently, I visited a railway where they were lighting up a loco only two hours before the first train. The loco had been used 4 days before and the "steam raiser" said the loco was still warm (must have very good lagging).

This seemed a very quick turn-around, even if the loco was only operating a short demonstration line.

Richard

 

Depends on how big the loco is but that does seem rather quick. I would expect to take around 2 hours for an average sized industrial that had been in steam the day before, more like 3-4 hours for one that hasn't been in steam for 4 days. I have heard tell of a 4 coupled saddle tank being brought into steam in under an hour from cold many years ago, but that would not do a boiler any good at all in the long run!

As for recommendation, the gentler you can be with stress on the boiler the better, and that applies to all aspects of managing a boiler such as demand during the day and disposal at the end of the day, not just steam raising.

 

Thanks, Nigel.

 

4 days does seem a long time to still be significantly warm; could he have been referring to a warming fire the previous night?

Standard for us is 3 1/2 hours (usually from cold); I'd consider 2 hours to be risking delay even from warm (used the previous day), but I'm not our best at it.

 

He was chucking a lit rag and some wood into the firebox while I was talking to him, so I don't think there was anything hot in there. Just hope the loco's next boiler overhaul isn't too expensive.

Richard

 

Two hours, from what sounds like nearly stone cold to being able to move a train, would be pushing it a bit. Three to four hours would be better, even if the engine had been warmed the day before. To get a firebox that hot too quickly won't do any good to the stays and tube beads.

 

You'd be suprised as to how long a loco can stay warm. 5029 stays warm for at least 4 or 5 days after a steaming. I don't have much experience with other locos but I'm sure it must be the same with other locos of the same size. Having a warm engine to begin with really does make a difference when lighting up and it significantly cuts the amount of time it takes to raise steam, although I would have thought 2 hours is pushing it a bit. Like Roobarb says, I would prefer to give it at least 4 hours.

 

Ben - thanks for the info.

It's not much fun getting up early to light up a loco, but in this case, the train service wasn't starting until 12 noon. A 4-hour light-up would still have been possible without an early wake-up call for the crew.

Richard

 

The guys at the Spa Valley have a minimum of 3.5 hours for a light up and prep. The locos are always lit up the day before and will be warmed through over the course of around 6 hours with a small fire so they warm through gently. We also try to leave small fires in them over night to extend the cooling time.

As Ben says, our locos can be hot for 3-4 days after the last steaming. It all depends on how well the boilers are insulated. We use the ceramic material and Rockwool, but the ceramic stuff is certainly the best stuff!! Sometime we are finding locos still in steam the following day.

Matt

 

If lighting up 5029 from cold we like to have a warming fire put in the day before the loco is needed in steam.

I guess really it depends on how big the loco's boiler is?

 

Perhaps if the throw in a big fire and hit the blower hard merchants also paid for or did the boiler work themselves they may allow the boilers to warm a little slower.

I have seen or felt a boiler been pushed hard from cold and the top of the firebox sides were too hot to touch whilst the lower parts by the foundation ring was cold.
Not good!

StM

 

That reminds me of the driver at Ravenglass this summer who said they give their little engines plenty of time to warm through to avoid a layer of hot water/steam at the top and cold water at the bottom.

Richard

 

Bluebell practice is to allow 4hrs from signing on to first train departure during the summer (e.g. sign on at 7am for an 11am departure); 4.5hrs in the winter to allow extra time on the train for carriage warming (i.e. sign on at 6.30am). Obviously off-shed times are a bit sooner, so probably 3.5 hours from getting on the loco to being prepared to move (obviously not necessarily at full pressure at that moment). All our engines start warm, i.e. either they have been in use the previous day, or else have had a warming fire inside. We also leave the fires in at the end of the day to try and ensure the boilers cool down as slowly as possible.

Tom

 

You're kidding, right? When I was a Passed Cleaner and, later, fireman, this was my favourite part of the day. Just you, the engine and a lid of tea, listening to it come alive. I still enjoy it now, if my mate and I swap roles.

 

Ouch! Practice on my railway was a 7am light up for 11am start, which was about right. The only locos which would stand a regular "fast" steaming are Sentinels, which are designed to do that, having water tube boilers, and you can get one of those into steam within an hour or so from cold.

 

In my opinion the answer is: as long as possible.

The way boilers(overhauls) where funded in BR (NS/DB/SNCF) days is totally different from the way it is done now. Even in the old days boilers where one of the most expensive bits of kit on a loco (especially maintenance wise)

If you handle a boiler nice and gently it will reward you with very low maintenance cost. On one of our loco's we are in the nineteenth year with the same boiler. No tubes replaced, no tubes plugged and no leaking stays. This is a 0-6-0 loco with a relatively small boiler (compared to most UK preservation loco's (and we are still doing + 100.000 visitors a year )). With this loco we have a lighting up time of three hours (when used the day before) This boiler has a good enough insulation to still have enough pressure to get it out of the shed on its own power the next morning.

When a loco is needed when not being used for more than three days the driver has two options: get up VERY, VERY early or light up the engine the day before (or find a mate who is willing to do this for him). This way you can keep your boiler maintenance cost really low. Keep in mind that about the most energy goes in the boiler between 90 degrees and 110 degrees. If you are forcing the boiler to a lifted needle on the gauge to quick you are really hurting the boiler.

Keep in mind: with short haul air flights it is the number of take-offs that counts, not the hours in flight. This is done for a good reason. In the old days boilers where kept warm (with a fire in it) for much longer period as we do now, therefore the thermical stress on the boilers was totally different from what we do now. The Corus Steam Ymuiden (www.csy.nl) use a very clever system: Corus has a low pressure steamcircuit on its plant. If the loco goes to shed after its two weekly outing the loc is connected to the low pressure steamcircuit through a heatexchanger connected to the boiler. The next two weeks the boiler will stay at 2,5 Bar and therefore nicely warm. If the loco is needed a two hour lighting will do, but how many lines will have this as option
A good water treatment helps as well

I have seen a narrow gauge loco been light up in less than an hour, but:
- I did not had to pay the boiler bill
- There was no rescue diesel available at that moment so ………

Hope this helps