The Tynesider 27/11/10

Exactly, palace gates repeats regularly the same views he has. I had gathered that he is a keen timer are likes to analyse unassisted performance and that's fair enough, I think we can all accept that, but to keep repeating the same things time after time after time achieves nothing. It certainly isn't going to change anything by banging on on here about it.

Palace Gates, we know, you won't ride, OK, but please, give it a rest mate. WE all are NEVER going back to the time when everything was steam. You can't have what you want, Live with it.

 

Can I just echo the comments of Steven (Bean Counter), their was no evidence of help on the run into Kings X, indeed 60007 was a star for the run. The box provided heat, which it did to a acceptable level. It also helped for the shunt release as already indicated, again what it was required for.

The run back had the extra bonus of 60019 to York. We were expecting a diesel run, however had this replacing was a further "selling point" to fill the tour, and provide RTC a way to get 60019 to York, without having to resort to a costly light engine run.

What nobody expected was to fly out of KX, like a scalded cat, with 60019 lifting load 14/15, like a 9f on steroids.

Further bouts of slow running/ impressive acceleration only compounded the impression that real assistance was been given away from checks and stops, not by just our group, but the full coach.

Whilst not knocking the efforts of the crews, and having the utmost respect for their knowledge, having the ability for the box to give a shove away from checks/stops does make their job substantially easier. Judging power/boiler output and when to apply is negated by asking for a shove if necessary.

If anybody asked, do i feel cheated by the return run, my answer would be No, it was an extra that came after i had paid for it, however if i had paid for that sort of run then YES. If conditions and NR dictated that this should happen to keep to path, then their is nothing you can really do is their???

 

That is rather an arrogant attitude to take, not everybody has such a narrow view as you, which is fortunate for the steam charter business. Operating under your criteria, steam only whatever the cost and consequences, there would be hardy any charters running at all. The end result being a collapse of the whole section, as owners went out of business having no regular income to fund their locos.
Still as a purist I guess cutting off your nose to spite your face would be quite acceptable.

 

I suggest you try telling your nonsense to the crews in question and see what they have to say on the matter. I suspect you'd end up wearing a fireman's shovel as a suppository.

 

What a grown up reply..., back on subject.

 

In my opinion, unless your are in full posession of ALL the relevent facts concerning pathing issues and loco performance on the day, your remarks are insulting to the crew and should be withdrawn. Iain

 

Re: diesel tailing in winter or not. If enough people like palace gates decide not to buy tickets, then the tour companies have two options; cancel their suddenly uneconomic tours, or ask NR to change the rules back. If they won't budge - and why should they? - that's the end of mainline steam in winter, and soon afterwards its complete disappearance as loco-owning/operating companies can no longer generate enough year-round revenue to fund overhauls.
People like palace gates should be careful what they wish for, and what I wish for is that they remain a small minority, and that most "potentially assisted" trains still sell out.
A solution could be similar to the arrangement reached for the Pride of Swindon. Put an official observer in the diesel cab to report how much/little power was being applied and when, report to be published in one of the railway mags. At least those people to whom it matters would be able to see which section timings were authentic.

 

As do those of you on the other side of this disagreement.

 

Ralph, should the arbitration of moderators be neutral when arguments become intemperate? Should you be moderating a thread to which you have contributed and about which you have strong views? On this occasion, I agree that this argument should be curtailed and continued only on the thread designated for it. The entrenched views will never be reconciled. However, I think some of the personal comments directed at Palace Gates are unfair and should have been moderated. I have the impression that certain fecund contributors to NP are given more latitude than those with whom they disagree.