Tornado

Cool. Just Richard Hammond and all 3 main presenters have been on her. Disappointing the news about the boiler. Hope it can be sorted soon and have her back in traffic.

 

Given that the boiler is the most expensive piece of kit for a newly-built locomotive, why are all involved sticking so rigidly to the traditional 'pay and buy' model? A few years ago the Royal Navy began using a new class of River class Patrol vessels, but they weren't bought by the MoD. They remain owned by VT but are rented by the navy, who only pay for them when they are capable of being used. If a problem arises, then it is in VT's interests to repair it quickly and well, for while the ship is unable to go to sea VT don't get paid. At the end of a fixed period (which I think is 10 years for the River class) the Navy can decide whether to buy the ships outright (when they'll be cheaper than they would have been new), continue leasing them, or return them to VT for resale to another country.

Why isn't this model used with boilers? they too are expensive pieces of kit, prone to preventing the engine from being used? If they were only on loan, then the owners boilersmiths would have to keep them in top condition all the time (apart from pre-arranged maintenance periods) in order to make any money back from their investment. This would also reduce the initial debt with which an engine began operating, allowing it to repay its debt as the engine generates revenue.

 

^^^ that's an interesting idea.

However, you'd have to find a supplier willing to enter into such an arrangement. I can foresee several potential problems with a loco boiler.

Firstly the supplier would want a free hand in the boiler design, rather than having to comply to any restrictions placed upon by the customer,

and secondly the supplier has no control over how the boiler is treated whilst in use - eg water treatment, heat-up cool down times etc etc.

 

And thirdly the supplier would have to finance construction in the first place! - and then recover the costs of doing that, the costs of maintenance and an allowance for risk. Difficult to see how this would work out any cheaper - much more likely the other way round.

The one advantage it does have (if a supplier was even willing to contemplate it) is considerable costs up front would not be incurred by the loco owner although he would end up paying more in total this would at least be spread.

 

You would end up paying more for the boiler, as the price of "financing" the item would undoubtably be passed on within its price.

However, what about boiler makers providing a "maintenance contract" scenario, if a owner pays a "set amount" per year after buying the item, it would then put the onus on the manufacturer to get it right first time..

 

That's a bit like the service contract English Electric had with BR for the Deltic engines. I can see that it might work for a class of locomotives but it would be very expensive for one loco.

 

Well you can't really blame anyone for that, except the Grim Reaper, as most of the old hands are now dead and buried.

Off into the realms of fantasy for a short period - could they not stick Flying Scotsman's boiler on Tornado and let it run about with that for a bit, til the Germans have got it sorted? (Tongue firmly in cheek)
Once the boiler is lifted, for the first time in its life, Tornado will suddenly look less complete than Scotsman.

 

Boiler lift planned for Thursday, I believe.

 

You know in practice those arrangements tend to be a license to print money? I think you'll find that the reason for those arrangements were that they enabled the Government to spin their public spending statistics rather than anyreal financial benefit.

 

I'd go further - such arrangements (Private Finance Initiatives) are why everything is so expensive in this country. The private sector/supplier takes much of the risk and costs this in on a "worst/most expensive case" scenario. Insistance on the Leeds Super Tram being a "design, build, operate" contract was a major factor in it being deemed unaffordable (Plus the last Government had a thing for buses!).

Steven

 

Taken from another forum this afternoon :-

Cranes booked for 9am Thursday for Tornado's boiler lift. Then off to Germany. Cladding removed today in the workshop, tomorrow out in the prep bay to remove packing and prepare for lift.

No hanging around then......

 

No indeed - the less time spent out of service, the less the overall financial damage to her trust is.

Get well soon Big T - looking forward to seeing her in steam, whatever the livery, again.

 

I've uploaded a (rather poor) photo to my fotopic gallery of a stipped down Tornado this morning. Sorry for the shameless plug. http://william.fotopic.net/p68679080.html
I really should be revising!

 

That has actually brought a tear to my eye. She's not been this incomplete since before 2008. Fingers crossed all goes well.

 

So now that the trust has confirmed that the boiler is on its way back to Germany, the wording does seem a little coy - probably dreading what the testing equipment in Germany might reveal.

The sooner she is fixed, and doing the work in Germany is the most sensible option, and back together again & back on the mainline asap as I for one cant wait to see her in Brunswick.

 

http://www.a1steam.com/index.php?op...iler-an-update&catid=1:latest-news&Itemid=123

 

Official announcement here:-

http://www.a1steam.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=1&Itemid=123

Hopefully not too long before the cladding goes back on and 60163 is back on the mainline again.

Neil.

Edit, cross posted with Matt above!

 

The A1 boys have my sympathy. We Bulleid owners are all too familiar with cracks in steel fireboxes.

 

A touch of hubris seems appropriate

 

In Braunschweig, (Brunswick).

Sadly not. That German Railways Steam Loco Works at Braunschweig , (one of the last works to fully overhaul German pacifics amongst other loco types, if my fading memory serves me right?), certainly no longer overhauls steam. And may not even exist as a maintenance depot in any form.

Sorry. Couldn't resist that.

And whilst, as I have said before, I have close to zero interest in 60163, (I never had any contact at all with LNER etc locos in the 1960s), it does seem a very sad position to have reached. For the vast numbers who do have a great deal of interest in that loco I sincerely hope the remedial work can be fully successful. With the loco back in reliable main line service soon. And yes. The photo linked to above does look a bit forlorn. But all of our mainline steam locos go through that stage and more during extensive maintenanace. I guess it's the timing of it that brings the sadness.