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13065/42765 'Crab'

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by guard_jamie, Jan 10, 2011.

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  1. Mighty Mogul

    Mighty Mogul Well-Known Member

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    Discussed at length several months ago on here IIRC.
     
    Mighty Mogul, Jan 12, 2011
    #21
  2. guard_jamie

    guard_jamie Part of the furniture

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    Found the thread, thanks! Just checking my lottery numbers...
     
    guard_jamie, Jan 12, 2011
    #22
  3. irwellsteam

    irwellsteam Member

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    the variations 42765 had were small. Someone quite high up at the ELR told me it was minor details such as buffers being polished instead of black, or something small like that.

    I also think they look ugly, but all midland railway designed or inspired locos look ugly. The crab, the jinty, the 7f, but they all have a certain charm. The crab i feel is a bit like the S160. Not pretty in the intended sense but their brute characters and power and rigid lines make up for that. And for that reason they're good looking
     
    irwellsteam, Jan 12, 2011
    #23
  4. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    The one at Binbrook Airfield (OK ex-airfield!) without a Merchant Navy!!
     
    Martin Perry, Jan 12, 2011
    #24
  5. Neil_Scott

    Neil_Scott Part of the furniture

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    What's happened to it?
     
    Neil_Scott, Jan 12, 2011
    #25
  6. ghost

    ghost Part of the furniture

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    35011 moved to the WSR and donated a wheelset to Braunton. It moved to Sellindge shortly after this. I think this happened in 2009 but I could be wrong on the date.


    Keith
     
    ghost, Jan 12, 2011
    #26
  7. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    35011, 'General Steam Navigation'; went from Binbrook to the WSR to give up its centre (plain, should have been a crank axle, but it lost that on withdrawal back in the 60s) driving wheels for 34046. Since moved to Sellinge in Kent where it shares premesis with 35025.
     
    Martin Perry, Jan 12, 2011
    #27
  8. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    You need to read Nat Pres, Neil. You'll get to know all these things, then! :rolleyes1:
     
    Steve, Jan 12, 2011
    #28
  9. Ploughman

    Ploughman Part of the furniture

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    If things had succeeded then the Crab may have ended up at Steamport Southport.
    I was part of the group that attempted to buy it from Barry.
    However it was bought for Bury instead.
    Went down to Barry a couple of times taking photos and working on recovering other engines as well.
    76079 and Jinty 47298
     
    Ploughman, Jan 12, 2011
    #29
  10. Neil_Scott

    Neil_Scott Part of the furniture

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    Quite, I had forgotten that it had moved.
     
    Neil_Scott, Jan 12, 2011
    #30
  11. Ian Milne

    Ian Milne New Member

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    Any update on when this will be in traffic again? Crab appeal pages on ELR website still say back in 2011.
     
    Ian Milne, Aug 24, 2012
    #31
  12. mike redditch

    mike redditch New Member

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    I have seen some pictures to show the ELR engineering team have been busy painting things whilst IR's team have done the actual engineering work. Maybe Flying Scotsman has held things up a bit?
     
    mike redditch, Aug 27, 2012
    #32
  13. Spencer

    Spencer Guest

    Loco will be re-wheeled this week (for the second time)
     
    Spencer, Aug 27, 2012
    #33
  14. irwellsteam

    irwellsteam Member

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    irwellsteam, Aug 29, 2012
    #34
  15. Ian Milne

    Ian Milne New Member

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    It's a year since the last forum update on this loco. Thought I read somewhere that it was hoped to start the Crab back into ELR traffic this summer. What's the latest, please.
     
    Ian Milne, Sep 3, 2013
    #35
  16. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Pedant mode but the "Crabs" were a Horwich product [designed by Hughes of the L&YR] with Fowler effectively "tuning" the design to meet the Midland Railway's more restricted kinetic envelope; I don't think the Midland Railway - with its small engine policy - had the nounce to design a "big" engine.
     
    Fred Kerr, Sep 3, 2013
    #36
  17. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

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    Fowler's contributions to the George Hughes original design were mostly to do with the fitting of the Midland vacuum-over-steam brake instead of the L&Y vacuum brake; and of course the 'Standard' 3,500 gallon Midland-derived tender instead of the Horwich one designed for the engine and based on that of the later L&Y 'Dreadnough' type, which at least would have been the same width as the cab side sheets. The project was too advanced to allow him to fit the Midland Compound boiler as he intended, even though it had been pointed out to him that this boiler would not meet the big cylinders' demands for steam.

    The Crabs turned out to be excellent and hard working egines in spite of, rather than because of, Fowler's intervention.

    Oh, and as for big Midland engines, don't forget the 2-8-0s designed foe use on the S&D, not to mention 'Big Bertha' on the Lickey!
     
    LMS2968, Sep 3, 2013
    #37
  18. jma1009

    jma1009 Well-Known Member

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    the CRAB was almost wholly designed by E.S. (Stuart) Cox

    Horwich through and through when various infighting was going on between the old pre grouping drawing offices on the LMS.

    cheers,
    julian
     
    jma1009, Sep 3, 2013
    #38
  19. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    Would have been interesting if the Midland had turned their hand to designing a 4-6-0 variant of the s&d 7f.
     
    ADB968008, Sep 4, 2013
    #39
  20. 242A1

    242A1 Well-Known Member

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    They would need to improve their cylinder/valve design capabilities. And invest in a new axle box design. Taking some advise from the GW with regard to making the exhaust system function in an adequate manner would also be useful. That is not to be seen as being too critical of the 7F, the design carried out the task it was designed for well enough but were always modest steamers. Not all crews are equal though and some can extract a surprisingly good performance from any engine.
    In the years when 1/53809 had a mainline ticket it would have been appropriate to let it run on the S&C, the Midland's greatest achievement, but that never happened. An outstanding crew may have been able to achieve a run and not a crawl but it was probably for the best that it was not attempted. A 4-6-0 version as a mixed traffic engine would soon be found wanting unless some very basic improvements were made.
     
    242A1, Sep 4, 2013
    #40
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