NYMR 2010 Passenger Figures Announced

Just posted on the NYMR Website:

Lookback on 2010: Railway’s popularity remains high but spending power down in a tough year

http://www.nymr.co.uk/2011/01/lookb...high-but-spending-power-down-in-a-tough-year/

The difference between the "Visitors" and "Passengers" is meant to cover platform viistors who don't travel - we don't have controlled access platforms, so this is always a guess (on the lowside) to make some commarison with other sites where only part is controlled when returning figures to the Tourist Boards.

The figure is believed to represent the highest in the world for a membership owned heritage operation. (See past discussions and you can probably work out which other lines that excludes!)

Steven

 

Fantastic result! I think your counting system is really helpful - you sell a ticket to travel and the counter ticks over by one. Non-travelling visitors will always be difficult to estimate. I think your figure, whilst deliberately low, should be much, much higher. I'd guess the number of non-travelling visitors who enter the WSR premises would be nearer to 50000 (esp busy at Minehead where the retail and catering do very nicely out of the non-travelling visitors, thank you!) and I imagine the NYMR would see a similar number? It's always going to be difficult to compare heritage railways unless we all use the same systems, which is never going to happen, I guess. What really matters is that each railway has its own constant measure of commercial viability.

Steve

 

How many passengers is a Day Rover counted as? I think I remember that HRA used recommend a Day Rover is equal to 3 passengers. I don't know if that was/is true or whether the figure is correct.
But, what do the Railways use?

 

Just the one - because the Grosmont/Pickering and Whitby/Pickering tickets are "All Line" tickets giving unlimited travel for the day without extra charge. Likewise, the figure is passengers, not passenger journeys - i.e. a Return and single each counts as one, not a return as two.

Steven

 

On the other hand they may spend money in the shops.

 

Well done the NYMR! From my visits to the shops on the NYMR there is room for improvement. All the shops are much too small particularly at Grosmont/Goathland. But not withstanding that well done to them.

Regards

 

Absolutely spot on Orion - both shops and tea rooms could do to either be much bigger or a wider range of outlets available! A good few years back, my mother (who was a regular volunteer for many years in Grosmont Shop) and I did an exercise that proved 20 people would almost be crush filling for the then Shop! This lead to a business case for the extension of Grosmont Shop, so you might get 50 or 60 in. The two main Tea Rooms have about 45 covers. Yet the 12:00 from Pickering loads 250 to 400 for much of the season. It is an issue that continues to exercise the mind and various ideas are being looked at to give people the opportunity to spend their money!

I think pennysteam also hits a point. In the early 1990s recession, passenger number dropped about 20% but the shops actually did well. The level of pricing/available spending money meant less were travelling, but they came to watch and then buy a Thomas flag or whatever. Fortunately, that hasn't happened in 2010. I say fortunately because for any railway, once the train is running, each extra ticket is really pure profit, whereas shops and tea rooms both have a cost of the goods sold. Hence, I would rather we kept ticket revenue than secondary spend - but would really rather we kept both! I think most people of a commercial background feel many heritage railways do little to exploit the secondary spend and, with some obvious exceptions, it is an area ripe for improvement on many lines. (At the risk of sounding totally mercenary!)

Steven

 

There's plenty of space at Grosmont although it will require building on the platforms which might be objectionable to those who would prefer to keep the station as it is. Could a coach be converted to retail use at Goathload I wonder.

Regards

 

I seem to remember that Grosmont tea room had an extension rejected by the National Park Authority some years ago?

Would it have been to cover the area currently occupied with the picnic tables?

Any chance it could get through on a revised application?

 

Steven: Without using bandwidth to start a new thread, can I ask for your feelings about the new overall roof at Pickering? Given that it is to be fully slated, will it not make the station rather dark? Was thought given to modifying the original Andrews design to incorporate natural light?

I'm not wishing to ignite the "was it a good idea" debate here by asking this question!

 

The new roof at pickering will not be fully slated - there will be glass panels on both rides of the roof. How dark, or not, the roof is going to make the Station has been a subject of debate for many years - the proposal to replace to roof has been around for probably 20 years or more - it is getting on for that long since the East side buildings were renovated with the first Lottery bid, which originally included the roof.

Many views are based on photographs of the original, usually taken from outside the roof with cameras and film much less able to deal with light contrast than modern digital cameras. An example is the "Cam" Camwell photo used as a basis for the cover of this year's timetable - available for download here http://www.nymr.co.uk/timetables-and-fares/timetable/ The roof lights are visible and I think may be slightly bigger overall on the new roof.

Whilst the timing of the expenditure might not be ideal, I have always supported the idea of the roof. The walls of the station are meant to suupport a roof, but that is not just appearance - it means they are not built to be free standing but part of a "box". The canopies BR erected are life expired - they were going to kept in case a use could be found but the current recommednation is scrap because pof the state they are in. The overall Lottery bid includes repairs to other parts of the station as well as the Education Building opened early last year) and Visitor Centre (opened later last year) and a demonstration Signal Box (the old Marishes Road gate cabin, currently at Goathland.). The whole lot is coming to the NYMR, after Lottery, Yorkshire Forward and Yorventure Grants and donations from the "Buy a Tile Appeal" for not that much more than repairs to what was there without the roof would have cost - and grants would have been much harder to get for simple repairs! The roof will also enable at least some stock to be kept under cover. The NYMR has more covered accommodation for the PWay fleet (because the York Area Group and supporters have paid for it) than for coaching stock!

When things get moving more visibly, I intend to start a thread with updates on the Roof - the spans are now scheduled to start going up next week. As of yesterday, the old canopies have gone, many signs have been taken down for safe-keeping and certain windows and the Tioile map covered with timber. The whole place looks a post Beeching Station!

On the previous debate, PLC Board yesterday discussed the drop in secondary spend and a number of ideas for improving sales provision were discussed, including some thing extra at Grosmont and an opportunity from part of the works connected to the roof at Pickering.

Steven

 

It can only be a good idea to do this, and the only way to see if it's going to be dark is to do and then, if necessary, to modify the plans. This plan could quite easily be the making of Pickering station, as it is it's a bit dull and uninteresting.

Regards

 

Steven: Many thanks for the clarification. It was difficult to tell if there was any glass in the "Andrews" roof, given that most photographs tend to be "end-on" if you get my meaning.
Hope the weather holds for you while the main structure goes up. The NYMR starting some heavy engineering work tends to bring on everything the weather can throw at North Yorkshire! Good luck with this one.

Edit: Just had a trawl through a few books, and have found a plan drawing of the Andrews train shed at Filey, and there appears to be glass in the raised portion near the apex, a "lantern" or "clerestory" ?-- not sure of the technical term. Best I could do for an interior image was in Ken Hoole's "Forgotten Railways" book on the North East, where there is a good photo of what I assume is a similar trainshed, at Market Weighton, and it doesn't look too gloomy inside, even on what appears to be a dull day. Given how early these Andrews structures are, I assume they were iron rather than steel, and the metalwork looks quite delicate. Presumably the new structure uses modern materials.

"Sacrilege" I guess, but what about photo voltaic panels on the far side of the new roof to power the lights inside.......

Taxi!

 

To see an Andrew's roof in all it glory in every day use go to Beverley Station. It is slightly darker but it does not mean that any pictures taken there are dark. On a wet day it is far better to wait for a train under a roof than a canopy at pickering (I know as I often do both!). Hopefully the roof at Pickering may encourage more visitors to part with their hard earned cash in the shop and cafe.

 

Quite so. The problem, though, is that both the caff and shop are small for the number of customers the station has. I would imagine that the 'new' platform has space in it and I wouldn't advocate moving customer facing retail services onto the new platfrom, but can the admin side be moved over there?

The quality of the butties in the caff could be better!

Regards

 

Steven: Are you intending to start a thread on the erection of the new roof structure here, or over on one of the NYMR websites? Looking foreward to seeing the progress!

Thanks

Rob

 

To partly answer my question, I have seen images elsewhere taken yesterday showing the start of the erection of the Pickering roof trusses by means of a rail-mounted crane. Quite complicated pieces of kit, in line with the Victorian originals no doubt.

 

Apologies no replies for a few days - very busy time of year for me work-wise just now.

Yes, 46118, I do hope to set up a thread on progress. The plan was to get the metalwork up this week and, as you say, pictures have appeared on RMWeb (I think) showing the first 4 or 5 in place.

The plan is to get the timber cladding in place before the start of services and then slate above this with the timber acting as site protection.

The metalwork is per the original design and is basically steel bar and plate formed into the necessary shapes and bolted/rivted together.

Orion - Platform 2 has the Education Centre and Archives behind it. There is a plan to put a newsagent style kiosk on there, and the exact use of this is being looked at. Between the Education Centre and the Visitor Centre, there will be a picnic area, partly covered by a section of canopy formerly at Church Fenton.

I don't know how long back you had your poor butty - the current and previous Tea Room Managers and their current staff (especially Mrs S) have very much improved the fare in the Tea Room, but I would recommend the hot dishes or quiche etc. as being a speciality.

Steven

 

Does anyone up in the North-East have any further progress to report on the erection of this new roof? Weather should have been reasonable recently to allow the job to proceed.

Thanks.

 

This was in the local press
http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/8829926.Pickering_Station_roof_work_on_just_the_right_tracks/

Other than that I am up there tomorrow so will check on progress.