Tornado

That figure also appears in the Autumn edition of the newsletter that supporters receive and also says the boiler has undergone 60 cold-hot-cold cycles since she first steamed in 2008. Bearing in mind she was out of action for a while earlier last year and undergoes maintenance over winter then that mileage has been accumulated in less than 24 months.

Dave B

 

Thanks for the replies to my question about Tornado's mileage.
As Groks212 says she accumulated the 30,000 miles in less than 24 months. So if you knock off 4 months for time out of service that means she averaged 1500 miles per month.
So my idea about very high mileage isn't right.

 

Who said that Steve? The comments were directly aimed at the building of a new boiler, specifically for a pacific sized locomotive. That is fact - Tornado's is the first all new pacific boiler, in use in the UK, and the only one in use on a mainline locomotive.

As has been stressed several times in this thread, there was no slight nor slur on boilersmiths in this country by anyone. You can surely understand the desire to go with a known quantity for building a brand new boiler to the size of Tornado's?

I don't think anyone has said it's not possible to make an A1 boiler or similarly sized boiler, only that it has not happened yet in this country.

To be frank, if you want a repair or overhaul of an existing boiler, you would stay in Britain, for sure. But since no one has built a boiler of Tornado's size since at least the early 1960s (possibly earlier?) in this country, for an all new boiler you would look at what's available, and who has the most recent and successful experience in building a boiler from scratch.

That happened to be Meinengen with Tornado, and no doubt the 3801 group in New South Wales came to the same conclusions when they ordered their boiler.

Fact is, in this day and age timescales and money spent are extremely important, and track record is what is looked at for what can only be legitimately described as conscientious business decisions. I am certain your point here:

Absolutely hits the mark, and is the reason behind going to Germany for 60163's boiler. Meinengen is a known quantity in building new boilers over the past fifty years: the boilersmiths in the UK, however skilled they are, are not. That's not intended to be inflammatory, it is sadly fact.

 

The British boiler contractors all have such long order books for overhauls that it is no wonder that A1 went abroad to a supplier with recent experience of building new boilers. Were they supposed to wait 15 years for work to start?

 

In answer to a previous question NS 3737 did indeed have a new boiler built for it in the late 90's. Not sure if Meinengen built it or not but there is footage of it being built on a very comprehensive DVD I have along with other loco restoration/repairs that were very defiantly happening at there. Shame really as 3737 hasn't steamed for 4 or 5 years as the Dutch Railway museum can't afford to pay for other repairs required to her.

 

The bloomer has a British boiler ?? isn't that the biggest British one to date in rail preservation ?

 

The bloomer has a boiler?!

That one passed me by! :redface:

It probably is the biggest all new boiler in British Preservation if that's the case. I hadn't realized they were so far along with it.

 

Here's a picture.. boiler in frames.

http://www.shakespeareexpress.com/tlw/0670_bloomer.htm

So near but so far... started construction before Tornado, will probably finish after Clun Castle, it just demonstrates the value of a BR logo on a tender when it comes to attracting funds.

 

What a fascinating project it is. I note they have a "send ink cartridges" for raising money - can we send monetary donations?

 

We've certainly got the skills to build a new boiler in the UK. Why haven't we, then? The answer is that, generally, we don't really need to. You can go on patching boilers pretty much ad infinitum and, despite what some people might think, it is a sensible option. The GWR were very good at that; look at the ages of some of the boilers on our preserved locos. Yes, you might be able to build a new all-welded all steel boiler for less than the cost of overhauling a riveted copper boxed one in some cases but we are generally into preserving our heritage and traditions and that includes the boilers. Tornado (and the Bloomer, etc) are different simply because they are new construction and they haven't got a boiler to overhaul in the first place. There's no choice with them. I'm guessing but the fact that Tornado's boiler was built in Germany was almost certainly a commercial decision based on price and delivery and not the ability of our boilermakers to both design and build.

 

My sentiments exactly, and several members of the A1 Trust have said this when asked.

 

Absolutly! Please send as much as you can!

Everytime we walk past the Bloomer in the shed, we all say "we must finish this soon!".

We have most of the bits to finish it apart from the brasses and some boiler fittings. We also need to work out the brakes - the old wooden blocks on the tender are not going to cut it!

 

I have heard of the expression "grandfather" rights on several occasions. Is there really any truth to this or is it something of an "urban myth" i.e. something that is repeated so often that it becomes an accepted truth, without any justification at all.

Evidently getting approval was not too formidable in the case of "Taliesin", the G.W.R. railmotor, sundry "Terriers" , "Wrens" or Quarry Hunslets to name just a few instances.

 

Couple of pictures of boiler back in the works

http://www.a1steam.com/index.php?op...arrives-at-meiningen&catid=61:2011&Itemid=253

Hasten ye back.....

 

I did actually post that link earlier, but it's a nice reminder to all that the investigations are ongoing.

 

The term grandfather rights is used regularly for various things and can mean different things. In the case of steam loco boilers or any other pressure system, if you build new, it has to comply with the EU Pressure Equipment Directive (PED), which is enacted in UK law by the Pressure Equipment Regulations 1999. (PER) These regulations do not apply to any boiler manufactured before 1999 so an old boiler can continue in use. However, if you decided to build a new A1 boiler exactly as the original, you would enter into a fairly complex scenario. There was no standard for steam loco boilers and they have generally evolved in various ways. One of the requirements of the PER is that boilers are built to a recognised standard, such as BS2790 (welded boilers) and there is no way that the original A1 boiler will comply with this. There isn't one for riveted boilers. You can build a boiler that is not to a recognised standard but then you have to go through a more complex conformity assessment procedure to prove that it is safe, essentially by calculation and testing and third party assessment. That is not the easiest thing in the world to do with our traditional boilers although it can be done. Presumably this is a hoop that the 82045 team will have to jump through if they build a traditional boiler.
It's a complex subject and I've tried to keep it simple (mainly because I don't know all the detail!) The thing about the PED is that it is not Health & Safety legislation but it is part of the 'free market' suite of directives drawn up by the EC to ensure fair trade across the community. The enforcing authority is the local council weights and measures inspector, not HSE or HMRI!

 

Happy to send a donation - I'll be sending a PM shortly.

Would it be worth having some sort of youtube video entailing what the rest of the build entails? I am sure many people would donate to the project to see it come to fruition, but it doesn't seem to have had much exposure the last few years. Forgive me Ben if I misrepresent Tysley there.

I wonder if a "new build" gala would have some appeal, perhaps in the yard of NRM over a weekend, or similar. Lyd, Taliesin, Corris no.7, Tornado, and the Bloomer all together on show perhaps...? It could perhaps be done as some way of raising funds for a ) the bloomer and b ) the new Falcon at the Corris. Mutually beneficial to all parties - raising awareness of the locomotives and their operating groups, and bringing more visitors into the chosen venue over the event.

I'm just throwing ideas out mind - no idea of the costs involved, my apologies! Sadly just a dreamer, maybe one day something more.

 

Are these regulations the reason for some of the old knackered boilers, Scottsman and Taw Valley having such extensive repairs rather than being newly constructed? Likewise will the Patriot Group have the same problems getting it approved?