Replicas by Instalment

This is an idea that I have thought about for some time and has been touched on by a number of recent threads.

When a substantially complete loco undergoes an overhaul, there are invariably some items that are no longer serviceable and require replacement. What happens to these bits and pieces?

For example, I understand that Flying Scotsman has now had cylinders from Salmon Trout fitted. The old ones may not be serviceable any more, but they still can have a use. As time goes on, all of the parts of a loco that is maintained in working order will become life expired and be replaced. Eventually there should be enough bits left hanging around (provided they are not melted down) to assemble into a static locomotive.

An A3 is not a great example, but think of a class which has many working examples (Black 5, Hall, WC/BoB etc.).
If the redundant pieces are pooled, a reasonably complete locomotive could be created. OK, the loco would not be fit to operate, but could show what the class looked like - a bit like one of the proposed B17 replicas. This one would not even strictly be a replica as it would be constructed of genuine parts.

In this way even poor old 48518, as the only Doncaster built 8f might have a future - even if it only has its own frames & wheels.

Any thoughts?

 

Yes, the conventional wisdom would be that IS 48518, as it's the frames which are the locomotive's ID

 

Its probably unlikely that anything else that was left on that loco originated from Doncaster anyway... And heck, even the frames *might* have been swapped at some time. After all the Railway companies distinguished between new/replacement/rebuild etc on the basis of how they wanted it to appear in the books, not because they held the identity was vested in one particular component...

I suspect from a practicality point of view that although it would be fairly straightforward to assemble some major components from scrap consumables like cylinders, you would still be left with the need to source an enormous number of small components which would still be enormously time consuming and expensive... But it brings up the image of the situation which I understand exists in the historical motor car business, where I've heard there are cases where two vehicles exist, each of which has an equally good claim to be considered the "original". I can't help thinking that if there are operational steam locomotives in a hundred year's time there will be a considerable element of grandfather's axe about them...

 

Sadly, 48518 no longer has its wheels just a very rusty set of frames at the end of Bury MPD

 

IIRC the NRM differentiated on this very point some years ago between conservation and restoration, about the need for railways to retain original but defunct parts for later re-fitting when a loco is out of service, or for showing in a musuem.

Patrick

 

I'm surprised that no-on has pointed out an obvious flaw in your suggestion - which is that it would really only work for classes that already exist - and what would be the point of creating, say, an extra Black 5 when we already have 18 preserved examples? The point about replicas is that, so far, they're all examples of types that failed to make it inot preservation.

 

Ah yes! The fatal flaw.

I agree and I would probably not travel very far to see yet another 5 or Hall - especially a non-working one (nothing wrong with either of those of course, but they are quite common). But imagine if sufficient parts were retired from 4472 to inspire the building of a new 1470 Great Northern. Or perhaps finding enough BR standard bits to put together a life-sized model of the much talked about but non-existent Standard 2-8-2. Near the entrance to Didcot Railway Centre is a whole kit of parts comprising wheels, extension frames firebox etc. Surely there must be something 'Great Western' that these can be asssembled into ;-)

Or should I keep my Frankenstein-like schemes to myself?

 

Nice to know that theres another Locomotive Frankenstein out there.. for the Standard 2-8-2 you would need a Britannia in bits (which there isnt) and some parts of a 9f (of which there are some) plus some new frames, wheels and motion but there isnt a boiler which is the biggest stumbling block
.. There are some 9fs in bits with boilers but my idea of rebuilding one as a 4-8-0 hasnt exactly met with popular acclaim, probably because one never existed Once Hengist and 82045 are built the outlook for other future standards is i little brighter

The missing faces on the GWR family fot are gradually being filled by this method though... grange saint county even the 47xx is now being considered. Unfortunatelly there arent enough bits of LNER locos to put anything together apart from Another A1(PEP) A2 OR P2 (which would use tornado patterns)

lms ... an Ivatt caprotti 5 would be interesting

Southern.. Pre rebuild Merchant Navy is still the Holy grail...

 

If you want to build a non-working replica, why be constrained by the use of worn out parts? Fabricated bits from steel (as in the "Hogwarts Castle" in Florida) would look the part and most people wouldn't know. That way you could have a Gresley P1 much sooner and at a lower price!

 

Perhaps there could be an educational use for a loco to be built out of scrapped parts in that it could be sectioned (in the same way as 35029 Ellerman Lines at the NRM). I am sure that museum visitors would find it interesting to see what is inside a loco when they visit a regional museum which is currently only possible at York? You wouldn't necessarily need all the small parts as the main points of interest are the frames, wheelsets, cylinders, boiler/smokebox and cab?

 

An obvious problem with constructing a worn out replica from life expired bits is that some numpty would then start a fund to return it to steam!

 

What a good idea!!!

 

thats OK, you could replace all the worn out bits with new ones and then use all the worn out bits to create a new loco

 

And then repair it!

 

this could be a long thread

 

You could end up with 20 authentic Flying Scotsmans all with different liveries, with and without smoke deflectors greens, blue and black.

'appy days!

 

Locos don't have any identity other than the number on the cabside. Which is why trainspotting is pointless. (But I enjoyed it while it lasted )

I doubt there is a single part on Flying Scotsman that was on the engine when built, for example.

And why its important not to disturb the few locos that were deliberatly restored by the works to original condition, or which have been preserved exactly as taken out of service. If you want one of them to run, _then_ build a replica - lend it the original chimney or something if you want 'authenticity'.

I can't see any purpose for a replica of one of the existing classes. You could tell the story of 48518 in a museum using the frames and an AV display.

 

huh? you advocate building a replica to save using an original and yet you cant see a purpose in doing so

 

Sorry, I wasn't very clear. I _can't_ see the purpose of creating a non-working replica of a class that already has several steamable members. I _can_ see why you'd build a working replica of a one-off to in order to preserve the originality of the genuine one. As has already been done with Rocket, for example.

 

If all the spare life-expired bits were pooled, it would still be worth making them up into a static exhibit somewhere, not necessarily at a heritage railway.