Flying Scotsman

When we got to Carlisle last year on The Pride Of Swindon behind 5043, we walked onto the bridge to snap her, and a couple who were passing by up there asked "Ooo, is that Flying Scotsman?" We said yes and they went away happy. Good deed for the day!
:yo:

 

I'm saying nowt. I've said it all before and it can be searched for...

 

Obviously the smoke deflectors and kylchap are a part of 4472's story and development which mustn't be forgotten, as they are a part of its development. However they are removable! With something like a steam loco, unlike, say, an oil painting, this is readily achievable for all or part of the time. Remember that, with 71000 for example which has received many modifications in preservation, the private trust owning it has no particular duty to its loco looking right (which it does) - the NRM, as a museum the main job of which is to educate, does. This is what Mr. Dow was objecting to particularly.

 

Personally I think that's putting on the NRM a duty/obligation/responsibility that they do not have, and which is just a personal whim/obsession on the part of some individuals

 

Quite right. Unfortunately, a lot of enthusiasts, most towards the older end of the spectrum seem to think that preservation should be about strictly recreating an aspect of the past. If there's anything we've seen its actually creating the present and future, as history didn't stop in 1968.

 

OED

preserve
n verb
maintain in its original or existing state. Økeep alive (a memory or quality).

 

"If there's anything we've seen its actually creating the present and future, as history didn't stop in 1968"

That is ACTUALLY the case, railway preservation doesn't, and in some cases shouldn't adhere to the dictionary definition.

 

But is their view any less valid?. Everyone has preferences and boards such as this allow people to state what they like. It never ceases to amaze me how people fight each other over issues like this!

 

I'm not fighting anyone in particular, just having a rant at the armchair trolls in general.

 

Technically one might argue that an artefact's history stops the moment it goes into a museum, and becomes a relic of the past. The history from that moment on is quite different.

Please don't think that I am one of the thoughtless trolls, and don't write off a desire to see a locomotive displayed 'looking right' as a whim, obsession, the reserve of rivet counters. I'm a volunteer, albeit non-MPD and non-maintenance, and I have a great respect for those who can and do maintain our steam powered history - as my post on page 70 notes. Generally I am pragmatic when it comes to railway preservation - I appreciate that we have to compromise. I am very happy to see Flying Scotsman nearing completion, and will be going to see it in whatever guise. Generally the NRM do an absolutely fantastic job - and they have with this overhaul.

I just think that Andrew Dow has a point here - this isn't any old owner, who can do what they want, that is turning out 4472 in an aesthetic combination that even the most relaxed enthusiast will admit 'doesn't look right', it's the NRM, the guardians, if there are any, of our nation's railway past. If they don't have a duty to display their locomotives reasonably accurately, who does? The fact that the general public think any steam locomotive is either Thomas or the Flying Scotsman is irrelevant. Probably most visitors to the National Gallery couldn't tell a Turner from a Constable but they'd never put one in an exhibition dedicated to the other.

 

:rofl:

:rofl:

 

Alright, there's 3 things I want to say...

Firstly: I don't believe it's fair for people to say that the Steam Railway Magazine is being negative about Flying Scotsman. I've always found that they've stayed relatively neutral about it. In fact, they've stayed relatively quite positively and supportive about it, even when at times not many others are...

Look at the previous issues that talk about Flying Scotsman, and you'll see what I mean. It seems clear to me that several members of the SR staff have a soft spot for Flying Scotsman.

For instance, the article in the latest issue that talks about the details of what work was done on the engine during the overhaul... I couldn't believe the amount of work they had done! Chris Beet's statement "It's probably the biggest overhaul undertaken in preservation - ever" is no overstatement!

Secondly: Once again the never ending debate of livery has sparked up... Personally I don't mind what livery it appears in, as long as it's running (although I'm not keen on it being painted red, as someone had said earlier...).

But I will confess that when I think of Flying Scotsman, the image that come to my head is it in apple green livery with single chimney, as someone said earlier it just looks right.

And finally thirdly: I do partly agree with Andrew Dow, in principle, that as a museum they have a obligation to preserve and operate the engine on a more historical/authentic basis than a comercial one.

What I don't agree with Andrew Dow though, is the fact that he publicly expressed his critism now of all times. What was he thinking!

Couldn't he have waited at least until Flying Scotsman was up and runnig. The museum was having enough problems, what with the sudden apearing of cracks in the frames (or was it the hornblocks? I'm not sure...) which meant they had to delay the it's return, and the ineviatable waves of critisms that would follow. And then he does this...

You have to feel sorry for Steve Davies and his team, their doing their best. But it seem this nightmare won't end for them, until they get Flying Scotsman up and running. Hopefully, things will get better.

Side note: This may sound wierd but... "Flying Scotsman, if you don't work reliably for those nice people at the museum that have worked really hard on you, then I will hit you repeatedly on the smokebox with a wrench. Understand??!! Good..." Wierd part over.

 

I have to have a wry smile about all this. Accucraft have recently announced production of a live steam Gauge 1 A3 and have been pounced on in another forum because of the pre-production shot which features 4472 in LNER apple green with blinkers, it seems nobody is safe and they have had to describe this model as "running in 21st C." which will probably, maybe, perhaps be right! :confused1:

http://www.accucraft.uk.com/products/flying-scvotsman-lner-live-steam-4-6-2/

It's a minefield!

Foxy

 

Steam Railway splashed a big banner across their front page saying that FS had been delayed "again" - this time because of cracked frames. When you read the article inside you discover that the problem is actually cracked hornblocks - two vastly different things with vastly different effects on when FS returns. However "cracked hornblocks, short delay" doesn't make such a sensationalist article for a magazine. There is really NO excuse for this kind of journalism - it is obvious that the writer knew what the problem actually is, but chose to blow it up out of proportion for a good headline. While Steam Railway has been supportive of FS in the past, their recent reporting is not exactly "relatively neutral"

Keith

 

I have discovered something even more shocking than FS being inauthentic.

The NRM are custodians of what was York railway sheds, and they have not kept them authentic either. It's a disgrace. I saw some pictures of it in BR days, and it's nothing like that now. Bloody philistines, you can't trust them with anything. Where's the other 3 turntables, eh? And the smoke hoods? And the original floor? And what are they doing putting bloody semaphore signals in there eh? They've only gone and tarted it up everywhere haven't they! Why? Call yourselves a museum? Pah!

And don't get me started on what they're doing now to the Station Hall. I know for a fact that's not authentic either.......

 

And they are not alone in doing that this year.

I know it's every magazine editor's day job to sell magazines, but the feeling that everyone is lining up to take pot shots at the NRM now - and at the livery debate, again, of all things - is somewhat perturbing, given how much Scotsman does simply as a brand name for railway preservation.

The moans about the livery are rich! The wartime back is something different, but it IS an accurate livery for a member of the class A3 (sans smoke deflectors). Humorist was in this double chimney form and carried this wartime black livery throughout the second world war. Arguably, just by changing the type of deflectors (to the Peppercorn A2 standard), you could get away with LNER apple green on Scotsman, as Humorist again set that precedent (albeit carrying the BR number and branding).

But then, we know the German style deflectors are the best at what they do, that is why Humorist remained a one-off A3 with the A2 style deflectors, and all the other A3s gained the German style.

Of course, I suspect what has prompted Steam Railway's recent reporting is the ever perennial push for BR Dark Green paint again (and in the interests of balance, they did donate a large four figure sum the best part of five years ago to the cause). Merely speculation on my part, mind.

It's interesting the differences in reporting and opinion we see with particular locomotives...!

 

Hmm that could be the solution. Melt FS down and we can all have our own live steam model made out of the metal, and then we can run her round the garden in any way we want!

You know they've even put locos in there not authentic for that shed either? Call themselves preservationists................

 

Mmmm..... the original floor and the original inspection pits.... except for the fact that the latter weren't entirely back-filled safely, witness the Class 31 found at a drunken angle one morning as is slowly disappeared into the floor! Ho hum, what fun!

Foxy

 

I wouild agree with this , I do think that the headlines in SR have got considerably more 'tabloid' in the last 12 months - not sure why but it is getting a little silly.

Equally they seem to be pushing very controversial (and at times) pointless stories just to provoke things (and perhaps the Dow piece follows this theme) - there have been times recently when stories/interviews have read almost like the Sex Pistols interview in the 1970's (apologies only some of you will be old enough to understand that - 'go on say something controversial!!').