60532 Blue Peter has been finally sold?

So you're happy blackening the A1 Trust's name but you haven't got the courage to back your outrageous statements with facts.

No disrespect to NELPG - but with supporters like you bringing theminto this, they don't need enemies

Put up - or shut up!

 

Still winning friends and influencing people Frank.
Though Perhaps if plenty of Steves and others like him did actively support/ have an association with the NEPLG then they would be in a position to tackle a Project like Blue Peter...
They dont,
they arent,
things are moving on...

 

If you had taken the time to read the main blue peter thread, about the incident you would see that the owners representative pointed out the error by the driver on more than 1 ocassion between newcastle and durham. If he takes no notice and thinks he can do better, what does the rep do, hoy him over the side?????

I back steve up on this, NELPG know the loco inside out, they should have their expertise used in a contract repair.

 

I don't understand why these debates always have to degenerate into an 'us and them' type slanging match. In these straitened times I can see more and more rebuilds becoming JV's. See for instance the KWVR's 45212 and the NYMR agreement, also Scotsman where much if the work has been contracted out to Riley's et al. I fail to see why both the NELPG and the A1 Trust (and others) might not have a part to play, should the owner of BP so chose.

 

I think Hopetown may have the march on certain aspects, im sure NELPG have others.
Bit of a pointless argument really as with most overhauls the Boiler may go one place, the frames another, replacement parts made by others, and its not a competion..
Sooner or later the 'the new guys who dont know what theyre doing' tag will have to fall off the creators of Tornado
Given the Geography and a little common sense IF Blue Peter Went to Darlington for overhaul, im sure that some NELPG members would want to have an active involvement and that their contruibution would be welcome, and of course vice versa

Should have waited as Sheff just said the same thing....

 

New guys? Tyseley, the SVR, Ian Storey.... hardly new boys but they all had a hand in its construction. At the end of the day, should BP come up for overhaul it is bound to be a joint venture and there is no reason why NELPEG shouldn't be involved but that doesn't exclude all the other players, does it?

Foxy

 

Hear Hear!

The A1 Trust may be the new boys on the block - but they have already shown that they can not only perform, but rise to the occasion in adversity too. NELPG doesn't need anyone to put it on a pedestal - forty five years of achievement does that on its own.

Its co-operation and not childish rivalry that will win out - and if that means some people can't accept it - tough. The world is moving on - adapt or die!

 

Can't disagree with that. I'm sure that joint ventures will become more and more common as time goes on.

 

Would NELPG become involved though? If the loco does bcome part of the Hosking fleet chances are it'll be Southall-based, not exactly handy for NELPG support crews!

 

Now you ve done it , the Southall 'slagger-offers' will be chipping in their penneth later....

 

Frank, are you implying that it was NELPG who were responsbile for the damage that occured? Maybe you would like to talk to the support crew (including my dad) from the day who had to pick all the twisted motion up because of the actions of one driver, unless this man was an NELPG person it all comes down to BR - who did pay some of the costs of the repair and allowed use of Thornaby for the work.

Personally I do think NELPG would be the best custodians for the loco IF sold, but as yet Rupert Drury offically still owns the loco so everything is just idle speculation.

 

I think its rather vigourous speculation, with a bit of speculation indignation, review your edification forthwith....

 

I don't think the loco has been sold, but I think the fact that Rupert Drury has been added to the Locomotive & General Board indicates that a deal has been done to get it running again, and I don't think that deal involves NELPG. I'd expect to see it move to either Ian Riley or Crewe for overhaul - the boiler requires major work that not many places could (or would want to) tackle. Problem is, I'd say both organisations are unlikely to have space available for it for some time.

 

I hardly dare mention this thought...... but if the boiler needs so much work and in light if the FS boiler saga, it would make sense to commission a new one. How much longer is the movement going to keep pouring money into old vessels for a very limited return? The fact that 60532 and 60163 share a common design in terms of size (albeit with different regulators) would suggest that building another one (or better still two) could pay dividends. You cannot call it 'preservation' if you rebuild a boiler so completely that there are only a couple of original plates left, whereas if you build a new one you can still preserve the original. The A1SLT had to bite this bullet and despite the subsequent issues with that boiler, it was far cheaper than the 'repair' to 4472's A3 boiler.

Foxy

 

What is the major work required?

 

First of all.... this is all just speculation. Even if the engine isnt sold and Hoskings is providing the finance with a new partnership agreement, what matters is the details of agreements made should any have actually be finalised and signed upon. If not, this is all academic, but also fun to hear peoples views.....

But to answer some of these comments I think is fair. First of all Im being pragmatic and open minded about the A2s possible future. Like others have said I would put my faith in tried and tested companies for the overhaul. Somewhere like Rileys of Crewe. NELPG have the experience of its operation, but are busy with own projects though I reckon they would take it on if requested. Given Mr Hoskins funds contracting the overhaul out would be more straight foward and quickest even if more expensive. The Tornado group by comparison have built, or rather assembled, the new A1 and should be commended for it but I find it illogical and practially unworkable for Blue Peters overhaul, which will be protracted and complex, to then be contracted out to a group that have no experience in overhauling an engine, no significant permament staff at Darlington, nor man power to be called upon for significant areas of work. The problem is that people just don't like it when groups like Tornado, the current champion of preservation are then given the same critical view as everyone else. Its almost a cardinal sin to speak badly of the A1 group or even enteratain the thought that not all is right or could be better. People dont want to hear it and attack anyone that raises these fair points.

This isnt to say that NELPG should be the rightful people for which Blue Peters future lies. The engine has several possibilities but the overhaul to bring it back to operation will be difficult and expensive. To say that the Durham incident was NELPGs fault is frankly pathetic and short sighted. The engine was crewed by BR on the day and the climb out of Durham southbound following a station stop without a banker is difficult for any steam engine. NELPG advised against this move, or that the train should have been top and tailed. Very few to this day have repeated the station stop and assent since. NELPG do have an excellent track record for locomotive ownership, overhauls, and importantly BOTH mainline running and relationships with preserved railways; the latter being mainly the NYMR, which is going to be important when the A2 returns to steam and needs income. They also have a brilliant working relationship with WCRC who most likely would conduct main line operations and safety case for the A2, should they become custodians again. This projected view of the locomotives future is whats needed, not just who overhauls it.

However, more consideration should be given to the idea that messrs Hoskings and Drury could form a new partnership themselves and use other groups in what would be a new chapter for the A2. One has experience of operating other engines and the other with the engine in question. How they then forge links with groups, like the Royal Scot project, other engineering companies and mainline operators means that Blue Peters future could easily be achieved by following a business plan to get the engine back in steam following their decisions and opinions. Its up to them how they proceed.

Finally.... dont tell others to put up and shut up, when they have a right to an opinion as much as anyone. This is about sharing ideas and thoughts as much as listening and respecting others, even if you dont share them. I await your apology over the 'cretin' remark.

 

Like your answer Mr Hat.
The presumed potential association between the A1SLT and 60532 stems from alittle while back i think:
2)Blue Peter is going to cost a lot of money and time to overhaul ( I believe that the Boiler needs work and so does the middle engine) money that its current owners either dont have or dont want to spend. The NELPG is similary full on with other projects. In this Limbo state the presumption is that the Locomotive is going to waste and someone should buy it, but the asking price and the overhaul cost puts taking it out of limbo into the 'Scotsman' arena but...

+ 2) Post Tornado the A1SLT/ Hopetown we're keen to have another project for the team there to work on. Having a proven track record of building a Peppercorn Pacific, if there was a natural next project it would be a ....Peppercorn Pacific.... oh and theres one just sat there so clearly theres no hurry, we can take a few years taking it to bits and putting it back together and it will be excellent 'practice'

=5) The owners plus benefactors plus sponsors let the A1SLT/ hopetown overhaul the engine using their recent experience/ patterns/ drawings etc, organise a nice shiny new boiler and repair the spare later and the two engines with alternating overhaul/maintenence periods can between them fill a 50+ days a year mainline commitment and earn their suppers

or = 3
Subsequent niggles with Tornado mean that its engineers have been very busy thanks very much, and its Boiler hasnt been' without problems. Other niggles have affected Tornados work program, the money isnt available to think about too much else.

But hey it was such a NEAT idea dont you think ?

 

No apologies here sunshine

Your up the sleeve comment about the A1 people not being suitable potential stewards of an A2 because their new "out of the box" loco has turned out to be capable of being problematical is exactly the same as someone would be for criticising NELPG because the A2 was damaged whilst in their hands - i.e. completely ridiculous and unjustifiable.

When you have raised £3m and built and now operate the only new main line ticketed loco to run in the UK for fifty years - including analysing and rectifying faults that have become apparent in operation, then you may be able to comment. Until then I will let the all the facts speak for themselves.

The A1 Trust, NELPG and Mr Hoskings are the people who have the resources and the capacity to keep main line steam alive - each and all of them - but to start trying to introduce rivalry or to diminish any of them by implication is completely wrong.

So - as I said - no apologies for being critical of those trying to stir it.