60532 Blue Peter has been finally sold?

will that mean 5029, 6024 and 34046 moving to southall?

 

I believe the news about the locomotive is wonderful and now may much great expectations of returning to steam actually happening

 

I think 34046 was said to be based around the WSR initially then move on to Southall at a later date whether thats changed or not I don't know. Might not be too bad basing 60532 at Southall as 60163 has been based there recently (why was that anyway some work being done at Hither Green?) and if she continues to then at some point you could have an A1, A2 and A4 based there at one time.

Providing the loco has been sold and whether she would be based there.

Also where did the A1 Trust thing come in. Is it because the NELPG have part of the workshop that 60163 was built and Joem was overhauled.

 

No. .

 

Hey why not make it 4 boilers?? 1 for BP, 1 for P2, 1 for the other P2 and the fourth to swap when each loco needs it. Now were talking

 

Hither Green has always involved some very convoluted running in and out of the depot which has meant some very late nights for support crews returning with their loco, Southall is a better depot in many ways although I believe the Hosking empire only leases a couple of roads from WCR.

Logic says that since NELPG have half the Hopetown building and there is almost enough track to connect the two parts there would be an automatic symbiosis between the two organisations..... or not?

Foxy

 

Oh! If only.... if there were the capital available a batch of boilers would be SO much cheaper per unit.

Foxy

 

Well.... no apologies.... I'll let everyone else come to a conclusion on that one.

Meanwhile, back with the saga.... but Im sorry you have made one fundemental miscalculation. My thinking on why the Tornado group wouldnt be suitable has nothing to do with Tornados pressent issues regards reliability, or on the locomotive itself as a going entity. Rather its the organisation itself, which has been secretive to the point of being almost devious and guarded with news or enquiries made. Tornados present management structure is in sharp contrast to the many others on the mainline that have control of their engines but also how they communicate with members, followers and enthusiasts. Id like to say more, but as someone else has already mentioned its more trouble than its worth.

Finally, also dont think about starting to quote figures and experience. Ive raised more than 1,600 for a charity group Im working with in cash, and my responsibilities include operating a section with a 3 grand budget as a volunteer. It might be smaller than the figures used for Tornado but the theory and practice is similar.

Dont mention to me about up my sleve comments. Id rather be that than talking from up my own a**e.

 

Not necessarily, because they are locos with established roots and support crews elsewhere - although I think it has been said that 34046 is expected to move to Southall which is why, I suspect, 6960 has moved to the WSR. I think it has probably gone there because it isn't seen as a main line candidate and is freeing up 34046 to leave.

If 60532's connection with NELPG is severed I think it will end up based at Southall and attract a new support crew. 60019 was restored at the Mid Hants and based there for a while to fulfill contractual obligations but is now basd at Southall.

 

Thanks.....

Your right, the costs of the overhaul are going to be quite high, given the time out of traffic and the work needed, to not only get the engine working and steaming, but also equiping for the mainline with OTDR, TPWS, etc. NELPG are busy with two engines in steam (the J72, Q6) the K1 (undergoing quick overhaul) and raising funds for the J27. These form the core but valuable part of the NELPG collection, but it would be wrong to assume this is solely a NLPG vs A1 trust issue. Its who would be the best people to overhaul the A2 and form a group that would get it onto preserved lines earning money, and tours onto the mainline, so as to earn even more.

Tornado do have the knowledge of working with new boilers and the issues that it has risen from having tinkered with a design by trying to upgrade that with theory and technology. A new boiler would have been commissioned by now, but its fast approaching a time in preservation where some are considered expired and a new boiler would be cheaper and preferencial. Thats a decision for the owning group and engineers.

Yes the two engines share parts that are needed, but just how many parts used in the construction of Tornado where actually held by the group itself. A lot of work was subcontracted out for construction and then assembled in Darlington. Tornado thus doesnt have the parts that many might think it does. On the other hand many groups dont so its hardly a mark against them. It does mean that BPs overhaul could be carried out by a greater number than realised initially.

Okay, so the Tornado group might be busy learning from their developments, but it doesnt mean that a new boiler as your suggesting shouldnt be discounted. Theres nothing wrong with building a boiler exactly like that which Blue Peter currently has, rather than trying to build one thats modern and based upon theory. Tornados work also means lessons to be learned for all new build whether that be engines, moving parts or new boilers.

If I was to think what would be best. Id think that the consortium being created to facilitate Blue Peters return would already be understanding how a reputable engineering company like Riley might be the most sought after for the work and book the engine in for when it can be completed. Add that finance isnt too much a worry for this group, and the Flying Scotsman figures are whats now expected for a return and heavy overhaul to make the engine fit for puprose in the new tech savy era of mainline steam running. Deals and arangements with other companies would ensure its use and operation on both preserved lines and the main. But its the fine print ant decisions that matter, otherwise this is all just theory.

 

And that - sunshine - is precisely why you'll get no apologies from me, or anyone else with any discrimination - put up - or shut up!

Another one of the "I know more then you but I can't tell you what brigade"

 

Given their association and extensive knowledge of the Peppercorn Pacifics (they did measure up Blue Peter to produce Tornado's valve gear, amongst other components, after all), and the fact that they built a new locomotive from scratch, which - as yet - has not had a major mechanical failure on the mainline - and a reliable performer when all is well, I would have thought the A1 Trust to be the best choice of custodians of Blue Peter, period. Particularly as they also have many patterns for components which are shared by both the A2 and A1 classes...

I've read some rubbish before, but this takes the biscuit. There's no doubt in my mind that the old LNER apple green was chosen purely on economic grounds: as it was in the 1920s, it is now - apple green engines are bright, vibrant, and stand out, which is exactly what they needed Tornado to do, out of the box, when built, for its public profile. The relation to Scotsman's livery is a ridiculous assertion, particularly as it is an historical livery not limited to being worn by 4472 - I presume you feel the same way about the V2 being painted into LNER livery, or the B1...?

Utter rubbish. I ask this of everyone who has said this: have you tried an email, or a telephone call direct? I have on a regular basis over the last four years and the A1 Trust have never been anything less than straight up with information when asked for it.

 

Agreed..... The A1SLT is a charitable trust governed by the rules all charities have to abide by when it comes to transparency. There have been so many conspiracy theories about this or that concerning the Trust it is quite amusing to see someone trying to rekindle them. Subject to contractual confidentiality (as are all grown-up businesses) the Trust has published a vast amount of information and passed it on to Covenantors (who are not members of an ownership organisation as such) including, as diplomatically as possible, washing a lot of dirty laundry in public. A vast amount of this information (including the recent spat with WCR) is freely available on their website, the text of which has been sent in newsletter for to all the Covenantors.

Frankly I don't give a tinker's cuss who overhauls BP but as a fan of the big Peppercorn locos I yearn for the day when we can see an A1 and an A2 on the mainline together (imagine splitting a mainline tour, or two, between them). This movement is at its best when we all pull together and at its very worst when everyone is bitching at each other!

Foxy

 

......................bitching about the same things they bitched about last year, last month and last week - over and over and over again. :sleep:

 

What a complete and load of utter rubbish being spouted on this thread! Gladly, in the real world, spirit and co-operation is plentiful -with many examples of contracts being undertaken by other societies - the latest being Tyesley carrying out the bottom end work on Bradley Manor for use on the SVR. Who cares who overhauls BP, as long as it gets done! The fact that Rupert Drury is now on the Royal Scot boards speaks volumes of what the intentions are. Maybe ownership of the loco won't change, but it would be pretty weird if Mr Drury's new involvement with the trust didn't result in progress with BP.
As an aside, if the A1 trust aren't capable of overhauling an old loco because they only have experience of new A1's, then they better start looking for quotes for Tornado's overhaul in 6 years time!! Any society that has designed and built a new loco for the mainline has superb enginering expertise and while she has had one or two issues subsequently, she worked straight out of the box and has undertaken some pretty impressive, intensive work. No one has built a new steam loco in the modern era before and until someone else does, I don't think it is fair to question the trust; especially while she is out there working on the mainline at the moment, as that is where success is judged.

 

Has anything actually changed since the latest SR (received & briefly looked at a couple of hours ago) went to press? If not, then it seems to me that there has been a lot of froth generated in this thread, simply from a reported 'mess-room comment'.

I do agree with the earlier sentiments regarding folk working together though - far too frequently there's much back-stabbing going on, which can only reflect poorly on the movement as a whole.

Anyway, on a more cheerful note, I see that the next issue of SR will carry an article on Blue Peter - roll on 4 weeks' time

 

Don't think aything's happened yet. I did see the rumour on another site before SR was released. It'd be great seeing her back and the fact there are only 2 preserved Peppercorn locos with Tornado a new build it'd be nice to have his 3 classes in steam together.

 

I can confirm that co-operation is most definitely alive and well in the real world. Only the other day 34081 donated components to another Bulleid, components it need's now but 34081 won't need for a couple of years. 34081 will be supplied with replacements and everybody is happy. Thanks heavens some of the loons posting on here are not in charge of anything important.

 

As if Mr. Drury, NELPG, Mr. Hoskings, A1SLT etc will take any notice of the opinons expressed on this forum!

 

I agree, and it seems you can never please everyone with the various potential joint-operation arrangements. However, if all the froth and heat that seems to be generated by some topics on this forum was translated into energy, I wouldn't be surprised if you could drive a steam locomotive to Hong Kong and back on it (if the track was laid to do it)... If only all this pent-up energy was expended in the restoration and operation of locomotives rather than blatant smears and attacks, then the British railway preservation scene would be a much happier and fruitful place.