New builds - how many will ever really work?

And the 2 tenders they already own mean what exactly? ok one is only a set of frames but still. I do not understand your point

 

It's a shame that this thread has descended at time into name-calling and faux-offence, but in general it has been a very good debate. It is clear that some of the new build projects are bound to fail. Some will succeed because of strong business plans or strong support - Patriot, County, Grange, Saint, 82045 etc are some good examples of this. Others appear to be mere pipe-dreams - and I include 'Hengist' in this.

There are serious questions which at some point (certainly within the next 10-20 years) will need to be asked about many of our existing stock of engines - particularly those stored in ex-Barry/scrapyard condition. The two Black 5s and Merchant Navy at the CVR are good examples of locomotives that I would doubt will ever be restored now. Surely time should be given to forming a 'National Railway Preservation Trust' which could operate similarly to the National Trust, helping to pool funds both in relation to restoring locomotives and new-builds?

 

An excellant post Learner, in particular the point about the "National Railway Preservation Trust".


Well done
Chris:

 

One projected loco that has been about for quite some time is the David Wardale inspired 5AT. Is that likely to ever materialise?

 

Been away for a few days and chaos ensued. Oh well, for those who have descended into name calling you haven't really understood the title of the thread and have focussed on one small aspect. Also you haven't actually addressed the concerns discussed. The thread isn't about age, it is the profilation of new build schemes many of which are just pipe dreams but because creating a website is so easy suddenly become a scheme. Unfortunately there is little to distinguish between the possibles and ludicrous if you judge them by the professionalism of the website. This soon or later is going to result in people donating hard earned cash into a dead end which will result in lost enthusiasm and no more donations through reputantional damage to the movement. I don't notice Mr Spamcan your couple of big ones donation to the J39 club yet as offered previously?

Being a director has got legal responsibilities and accountabilities. A 14 year old cannot understand this or take decisions the affect safety or integrity of a full sized steam locomotive. Accept it, its fact now. Maybe not 50 years ago at Didcot but it is now. Law and legislation has moved on. Life has changed. H&S has arrived as has the terms 'governance' and traceability. As a director these things you must fully understand and implement. It isn't available at GCSE level yet. Its not bullying to point this (in the real world at least) fact out. These weren't factors in 1961.

Personal details on a public forum? Don't think so. Ever understood about identity theft, nutters in cyberspace and threats etc? Plenty of people on here know me and my family and what and where we are. Putting your name on a public forum together with basic identity details such as birthday, home town and area (as you can on your profile) is akin to giving anyone your credit card and bank account numbers and inviting them to clone your account details and buy everything you can't afford. Its about time the less clued up realised what is the biggest threat to personal security today and took steps to avoid them.

Right then - who is up for a replica fleet of Leaders? Its my ball and I am going to kick it where I want so they are all going to be out-shopped in Bluebell blue with Wainright lining. I just want 10 million quid...

 

Thanks for pointing that out, as I said before I still have so much to learn in this world. I will take the necessary steps but anyone who wants to find out who I am can pm me. But as I have already declared myself to current members of this forum I shall take it as read that should any member decide to question my integrity (or parentage!!) others will know that I am not a schoolboy or convicted terrorist.

 

Simply that you can measure up an existing tender if drawings of certain components can't be found.

 

Now there is a project! Just a few minor things that will need further development. Like the fracturing and leaking sleeve valves, the chain-drive valve gear, crank axles being re-designed to run more than 6000 miles before breaking, modifications to the boiler to eliminate the 'dry' firebox problems, fitting air-conditioning equipment in the boiler compartment, getting an even sidewaysweight balance, and losing at least 20 tons of weight.

Suggest better appeal for a minimum of £25 million................

Of course the final livery could be a discussion topic of its own.

 

I know what you mean. Which Ralph were you? the steward?

For those interested see http://railways.national-preservati...S-PATRIOT-PROJECT-UPDATES?p=432451#post432451 for a small update and see
http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100000652345862 for our facebook page. Remember to add us as a friend. Gav

 

the most valuable, inspiring, exciting , probing, imaginative project; the most silenced too because that heavy conservatism of the British preservation community!alas!
regards
noel

 

While the French are building them by the hundred.

 

no interest in france for steam (and railways in general) not in the french "culture" I'm afraid don't forget that france is a latin country! ALAS!!!
regards
noel
I insist heavily: the 5AT project is a fantastic project the most interesting, by far, of all

 

I would say that 99% of British enthusiasts wouldn't be remotely interested in supporting this project. It has no real relevance to any British railway. I would rather support new builds recreating locos that previously existed.

Bob.

 

Quite. It's even more of a pointless pipe-dream than most of the new-build projects.

 

I understand your opinion BUT this project has the immense merit to explorer the ulteem potential of a steam engine:it's a far sighting project

 

Hmmm...

If you want an efficient coal-powered railway locomotive, there are plenty of them whizzing up and down the ECML and WCML every day - not to mention plenty in la belle France. They are called electrics, and are far more thermally efficient than a steam engine, even the 5AT.

If on the other hand you want a go-anywhere engine that can carry its own fuel and doesn't need the infrastructure of an electric, then there are plenty of those: they are dead reliable, relatively cheap, run on a fuel that is plentiful and easy and clean to transport, and start at the touch of a button: they are called diesels.

That leaves a tiny niche for transport behind engines that are somehow romantic; make a lovely sound; have a wonderful smell and evoke a lost age. They are called steam engines; there are plenty running and most of us here love them to bits; but ultimately they are thermally inefficient; dirty; take inordinate amounts of effort to prepare and maintain and will therefore always be a niche product, not mainstream. And as far as the 5AT is concerned; the niche that likes steam trains likes them precisely because they are old, or at least - like Tornado - give the appearance of being old.

Fundamentally the 5AT is solving the wrong problem. It reminds me of the 1950s British airliner industry, making slow, low-flying airliners that could take off from the very short runways of the day; oblivious to the fact that any self-respecting country was going to replace those runways with two-mile strips of tarmac suitable for high flying, fast Boeing 707s precisely so they didn't need to buy our low, slow competitors.

Tom

 

The more new-builds that prove to be successful the easier it will be for other projects up-and-coming to be successful. The A1 started the momentum and projects like the Brighton H2 Atlantic, NER G5 tank and LMS Patriot 'Unknown Warrior' among other notable new-builds will surely further raise the profile of new-builds in the public eye, further consolidate a critical-mass of expertise and know-how which will surely assist subsequent new-build projects and help create the infrastructure for new-build projects going ahead. The more it's done surely the easier it'll get?

I believe a number of the projects have merit for preservation rail - the smaller and simpler pre-grouping engines most notably. I would like to ultimately see a small loco works established which specialises in new builds and substantial rebuilds for existing engines. I believe that going ahead this could prove to be an exciting and even profitable industry (Roger Waters, are you out listening?)

 

Now that would be great. But a long time away or in need of a big base of money.

 

except the froggy TGVs are indirectly nuclear powered.