70013 & 30777 ECML lineside fires 02/09/11.

Oops! For some bizarre reason I was thinking today was Saturday. :doh:

 

http://www.blottr.com/breaking-news/steam-trains-fire-causes-delay-doncaster

Don't think this person has quite grasped the story...

 

I heard it on the main BBC 18.00 news on Radio 4 on the car radio.

Like you Sheff I got home and checked there were no steam tours today, and breathed a great big sigh of relief.

Very sadly a misplaced sigh now.

I'm not on the ACE but had thought about trying to get a Waterloo - Salisbury ticket, but have got rather involved with some Barn Owls, and that is where my weekend will be now I expect.

Just hope the locos can be got to where they need to be in time for such a flagship tour. And that the fact that this seems to be a "once off" type of human error will not see any draconian responses for the incredible delays it has caused.

And yes. The East side of England, well certainly down here in Kent, has still not seen much rain all summer. Some due on Sunday though.

 

So what would you consider a proportional reaction to bringing the ECML to a grinding halt on a Friday night, probably the busiest period of the week? If I'd been stuck in London all week and was heading home to my loved ones my reaction to a 2 hr delay due to some puffer nutters setting fire to the lineside would be un-printable.

I wonder what sort of checks and procedures are in place before a loco leaves the yard - I'd have thought ashpan doors shut would be up there with enough coal and water in these sensitive times?

 

But dampers (ashpan doors) are used for primary air so having them open is a requirement to help with combustion. They can be shut as required though, and there are some locations where this is necessary, usually heavily wooded areas.

 

Picture of the culprits north of Doncaster and (persumably) before the lineside fires, here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/neil_harvey_railway_photos/6106936638/in/photostream


Regards
Copy Pit

 

Don't get confused between dampers and ashpan hopper doors. All (well nearly all) loco's have dampers to regulate primary air flow to the grate. Many 'modern' locos, paticularly BR Stds, have hopper ashpans, where the ash accumulates below the level of the dampers, and can then be dumped via the hopper doors, rather than having to rake it out through the dampers.

 

Ahh your on about hopper doors. Well 777 doesn't have them does she, as she isn't fitted with a hopper? And also I can't see a hopper being left open as youd notice the rocking mechanism wasn't locked even if you had forgotten to shut the doors. Jason's post on Pg2 seemed to indicate it was the dampers at fault, which can also allow ash to escape at times. Many locos are now fitted with ashpan sprays to reduce the likelihood of this occuring though.

 

Yeah but Cromwell certainly does. See also my post after Jason's, where I made the same point. Is Jason aware of the difference?

 

Hi,
I dont normally post and I'm not trolling.
Bear in mind that there was also a failure near Peterborough adding to the fire chaos, so there clearly needs to be a full inquest.

That said, I think it is clearly time to review steam movements over the core main lines. IF the bulk of todays chao is attributable to Steam, then it would surely be unacceptable.

 

One has to wonder. Why doesn't a light engine move like this go via the joint line as far as Peterborough anyway? That way it steers clear of the 2 track railway. (Main line wise) #

Was booked via Sherburn anyway (but didnt go),but couldv'even gone via Knottingley and then would have only been on 2 track mainline literally from Shaftholme-Donny.

 

Certainly not a good situation and lessons need to be learnt, but what if it was an oil train that set alight, or an intermodal that dropped its containers over the line. In those cases would we be suggesting excluding oil trains, or intermodals, from the core routes? Of course, steam is more of a luxury than the transport of those goods, but the number of serious delays caused by steam workings needs to be kept in perspective, particularly given that it sounds like human error.

 

Acceptance that, despite the very regrettable chaos caused, this would appear to be an isolated incident, possibly caused by human error or possibly by a fault on a single loco, which needs to be investigated, but not due to a systemic problem with the operation of steam locos on the network.

 

Agreed. The ECML has suffered a number of incidents this year that have caused varying degrees of chaos but the vast majority have had nothing to do with steam. Wont stop the anti steam brigade from sounding off though.

 

It is mandated for all loco's that run on network rail to have ashpan spark screens, so as no sparks can escape from the ashpan. As you say most are also fitted with sprays to help aswell. There is no requirement to ever shut the damper, it is entirely up to the fireman.

 

Question from a newbie; Looking at CopyPit's photo (Post 26), both 70013 & 30777 appear to running pretty hard given the amount of smoke & steam visible, was that really necessary for a light engine move? If they weren't due to pull the ACE until Sunday, surely it would be more economical to have left one of them cold until needed?

For the record, I was on the Flyer, 6201 pulled the train all the way back to Crew, no diesels involved.

 

anybody know if they've made it to Southall or still at Newark?

thanks al

 

Ralph, how did they manage to tow "Mallard" behind "Tornado" to Shildon without doing any damage?
Also why should a lineside fire close down the ECML? :confused1:

So many questions so little time!

 

Just a guess but if the motion had been taken down then pistons and valves wouldn't be moving and so no worries about lubrication there. As for axle boxes, flood them with oil. No doubt Anthony will be able to tell us once he's back from Dorset.