Flying Scotsman

There's means and ways about it Jamie. If people are going to post absolute rubbish or get on a soapbox simply for the sake of negativity, does it do anyone any good?

I take your point (and quite like that "fetted dingo's kidneys" phrase too), and can agree it's a bit extreme, but the last few pages of this thread had descended into one extreme in itself. Most (if not all) accusations completely unsubstantiated.

 

I could not say what additional stresses have put on the frame by an air pump but my gut reaction is this less than likely. Has anyone thought of the likely increase in stresses by the use of an 'improved exhaust system' - not that this itself would add to the stresses, but the fact that as it is more efficient it would lead to the loco being worked harder. Perhaps they could put a single chimney back on and thus restrict the wear and tear in the future?

 

Soapboxes can be terrible things when people get on them.

 

No it doesn't, but that's not the point - Glenn Beck doesn't do anyone any good, but he's got the right to spout his claptrap. Remember though that the reasonable will smell the fetid dingo's kidneys (glad that I brought a spot of humour to this thread!) for what they are and treat them with the contempt they deserve.

 

Fair enough, well put.

 

Right. It IS an Aussie delicacy then. LOL!

 

Well there is no present of something for nothing but the installation of the double Kylchap exhaust has advantages that it would be pretty hard to do without on railway network today. You have lower back pressure for one thing which allows for a more effective use of a given amount of steam and so by extension allows the development of more power should you need it. It also gives better combustion with indifferent fuels and inexperienced firing. The increase in power may present an issue of "wear and tear" but the A3 class worked for millions of miles with the improved exhaust and with the benefit of K J Cook's work were better engines than they had ever been in the 30s and 40s. With modern lubricants and a rigorous inspection program their should be no problems. However drilling a mass of holes in a steel casting that could be 60+ years old is not a good idea.

 

Yes I'm well aware of the advantages of a double Kylchap but I fail to see how "a rigorous inspection" would reduce the stresses on the frame/wheels etc. all you are doing is monitoring and then have to do further repairs when required, and as for the difference with modern lubricants I cant see that having a signifficant effect either. The engines did work for thousands (not millions?) of miles with a kylcap but they where not 60+year old and a 'nations treasure'. Shouldn't the old girl be treated to a more relaxed semi retirement?

 

Does any one have the low down on the current Scotsman Spec ie
The present boiler is to be working at what pressure ?
are the cylinders still 'oversize' ?

Its been mentioned before but improvement over the original A1/A3 exhaust arrangement doesnt neccessarily mean a double chimney,
but since that is whats available its fait accompli....
If Friends of 'F'ing scotsman or similar launched a 'single chimney /kylpor /no smoke deflectors' appeal perhaps after the old gal is actually running then perhaps well get there in the end

To all the Hindsighters who merrily point out that for the Money spent, F'ing Scotsman could be plinthed and a new A3 built (which kinda makes sense) theres one problem - Hundreds of thousands of pounds of jo publics money has been cheerfully given to 'steam our scotsman' and no doubt much more will be given in the future. Would those same people have dipped into their pockets for the ' build a replica scotsman so we dont bugger the original anymore' appeal....?

 

Sigh. The A3's knackered their frames regularly back when they were mostly A1's, 180lb boiler and definitly no Kylchap. If FS is going to be used then likely it will need frame repairs from time to time - they always did. When they weren't getting an entirely new set.

4472 is recorded as getting its frames patched as early as 1928. By 1937 all the A1's are recorded as having either new frames or new three-quarter frames, which in the latter case would have come from a different loco as the frames took longer to repair than the rest of the loco and were held in a pool. This was the standard procedure on overhaul from that period on, so since 4472 had no less than 14 full general repairs after that date its frames will probably have been swapped 14 times for newly repaired sets. The last set of new three-quarter frames were made as late as 1962. (All dates from RCTS Green Guide and Yeadon.)

 

Yes it is possible to use a single chimney & still improve its front end but thats not what I'm getting at, it worked perfectly well out of Carnforth in the 80's (?) with the single normal chimney why cant it now, and thus put less strain on the engine - all we need is someone more enlightened to fund a replacement. . .

 

As above. It won't make any difference - they eat frames. Always have. If its going to be used then the user will have to budget for frame repairs. Otherwise stuff it and mount it.

 

They may have 'ate frames' in normal use but this shouldn’t be the case with the amount of use a museum loco should get, especially if its not used too harsh and the use of a enhanced exhaust MAY encourage this IMHO.

It worked perfectly well out of Carnforth in the 80's (?) with the single normal chimney why cant it now?

 

Maybe a silly question but can you have a single Kalchap?

David

 

Yes Fergus i get your point . The working pressure and cylinder size surely has more of a bearing on how 'stressed' the frames are than improving the reliability of the boiler as a steamraiser. Pete is right, wearing things out is inevitable, but coping with 13 is going to pay for the next bill quicker than struggling with 11

and yes dave cheese you can, or the more modern take on it the 'KylPor'

 

Shock, horror! Does this mean that it can't possibly be 4472 because so many knowledgeable people on here keep telling us that the loco number goes with the frames. If so, what number is it? That's more important than any consideration as to livery and smoke deflectors. And were all those people who contributed to the saving of 4472 by the NRM conned? What would Sir Richard Branson say if he knew? This has opened an entirely new can of worms that will fill even more pages of Nat Pres and the steam beanos!

You should have kep quiet about this revelation, Pete.

 

Could we have another "Albert Hall" on our hands?

 

Well at least this could be the reverse of Black Fives to bean cans in the 60s - How many scrap skodas to a set of Scotsman frames then???

I don't give a hoot when its green or when its green or that it will have a kylchap and deflectors - just that when it appears that it works and gets a main line ticket, and with Mr Riley and Co now having stewardship of all the important bits - I really think it will!