New Build Claud Hamilton

LNWR Bloomer at a guess...

 

Out of interest what kind of costs are people paying for cad creation ?

(without giving too much away about myself, I basically work for a company that writes its own vector drawing cad software), it's mostly for banks but cad is cad and maybe I might be of use to preservation after all.

 

At the risk of rattling your cage Maunsell Man I have to disagree with you regarding this group. While I do agree that we have far too many new build projects with very little to show between them (and lots of existing things sat rotting without a proper carer) this group at least seem fairly honest about who and what they are. If you look on their obligatory snazzy website there is a page with photos of the whole team and a short biography that says "studying engineering at university" or similar. So anyone wishing to donate can see who it is they are putting money into, what their experience is and decide accordingly.

Anyone who donates to such a project should at least read the whole website through, plus anything else they can find and make an informed decision. If they don't then perhaps they should not be surprised if the whole thing falls through later with little to show for it.

I am not about to donate, by the way, on principle that we should be restoring genuine old stuff not building new.

 

Hi Andrew. I seem to remember you were a contributor on here a long time ago?

You certainly aren't rattling my cage, quite the contrary. I started a thread on here that questioned how many of the current proposals, suggestions and groups who were advocating new-build machines would actually produce anything. This group is no different to any of the others that rattle about. They will only be taken seriously when they produce something in metal after demonstrating an effective planning, fundraising, engineering and compliance capability. By producing something in metal that is not the seemingly obligitary nameplate, smokebox door and cab side, but something fundamental, expensive and important (like wheelsets, cylinders and boiler).

Multitude of groups, multitude of projects in proposal to nameplates stage but little else much beyond that. They are asking people to donate huge sums of money with little assurance or credibility they can achieve anything with it.

 

Thats right, I have been a member since the Exeter Bank thread in 2006 though I rarely have time for web forums (and, alas, engine turns) just now.

I read the other thread and find myself agreeing with a lot of it, but this one is about the Claud group. They seem to be a bit pie in the sky but then it really is early days yet, perhaps in five years it will be time to say "how far have you got then?" but I don't think it fair to judge and write them off yet. They have been fairly clear about the long timescale, who they are, how they will build it (vague statements about "using experienced engineers when needed" to me means getting a company like Israel Newton building the boiler or contracting Ian Riley to machine the cylinders). As for showing engineering capacity, they don't need it quite yet though I agree it will be essential later on.

What this project needs is a proper serious business plan, then a host railway that is willing to help out. To me there is no future in an independent owning group setup trying to build a loco that will be for preserved lines only without a home base. Look at the number of privately owned locos around that need thousands spent on them rather than the millions required here, yet the owners still find it a struggle to keep them going.

And really, it is up to people what they donate money to. It is fairly clear that they have yet to convince you! But other people might like to give a goodwill £30 or so on the basis that it is worth a try. Each to their own.

 

Regarding Maunsell Man's comment on the production of useful, rather than symbolic metalwork, I personally support this - the only newbuild that I currently support follows this path, being 82045. It's all very well to see people standing up in SR beaming over a polished brass nameplate but it means much less than a photo of a wheel in Boro Foundry, or frames being laser cut in a factory somewhere. Obviously I appreciate the publicity value of a nameplate on a stand such as the Unknown Warrior group use, but you get the idea.

So my advice to the Claud Hamilton group, ill-equipped though I am to give it, is to follow the 82045 group and aim toward useful rather than symbolic components at first - makes you look professional, serious, and dedicated.

 

Hi, thank you for the comments which we have taken into account. One of the first things which we hope to have for the loco once we have a suitable experienced engineer on hand with our project is to actually cast the bogie wheels.

 

Where is the pony truck on a Claud Hamilton ? I thought they had a bogie .

Keith

 

whoops, yes your quite right, i was half asleep when i wrote that

 

We actually have 3 Name plates for the Unknown warrior, 82045 doesnt have a name and as such couldnt use it. Now as you have noticed we have ours displayed when we take our sale stands around the uk, although you may be right about it not being essential it is however a great way of catching the eye of someone, so for marketing purposes its a very useful tool. when we dont have it with us many people dont have a clue who we are untill we introduce our selves. As they say its swings and roundabouts, but if a member donates enough money for one to be made then there is no harm in it being done, just dont use the money which is going towards the main loco. Thats my opinion anyway. Cheers Gav

 

is this because the f5 or g5 (cant remember which) has the same bogie wheels?? so the pattern exists??`cheers Gav

 

The F5, and yes your absolutely correct

 

Yes but you'll note that they don't have a numberplate, or smokebox door either.

 

Thats true. A smokebox door is pretty useless as it is to heavy to transport and isnt needed till the end really. For 82045 i suppose it would only have had a Smokebox no plate so as there quite small it wouldnt stand out so yet again its useless. BUT for Pheonix i suppose they could produce a nameplate for there sales stand that would eventually go on there loco?? Who knows thats completely up to them. For the price in brass for the nameplate you could buy decent equipment for a sales stand (gazibo, table, banner with the nameplate/logo on anyway, so yeh your probally right. 82045 is a great project and one to look at on how they are set up. There website is great and regularly updated with engineering and other news. Alot of other New builds should learn from this. I include "The Unknown Warrior" as a website that needs to improve. And 82045 have one of the best heritage railways at there disposal. For the claude i suppose choosing the "home" is crucial. If i was to offer my opinion i would say to go for a railway with Huge membership figures (if you were to get a choice at all) as they will join you. Remember you can contract work out, what you need is members and lots of them to pay for it. For now i suppose you would also look at what to produce with the money when you get it. You have said you would do the wheels first. Well i suppose there not the hugest item in size wize so could be easliy stored, in comparison to say frames which you need a large space. Do you have a costing of those wheels???

Gav

 

Haven't the heritage railways got a say in this? It's all very well saying "pick a railway" but said railways want to be convinced that a working locomotive will eventually emerge and not clutter up their already over subscribed sidings and workspace as it is...that's why the 3MT is going from strength to strength and why the A1 Trust probably got it right by not being tied down to a particular preserved railway in some respects.

 

............. but if they were to go with (say) the NNR they'd be getting access to a big pool of GE enthusiasts and some very well established expertise in fundraising - and when the loco is built the ideal pace to run it.

 

...I don't disagree with that, however.

 

Surely the "pace" it will run is 25 mph? (sorry!) This typo does bring us back to the point that a machine with 7 ft. drivers is hardly the most practical thing for a tourist railway. Running a bus service with a Type 43 Bugatti comes to mind.

This, rather than any considerations of the age or experience of the promoters, is the turn off for me.

P.H.

 

Think of it as a marriage, both parties need to want each other for it to be a success.