70013 & 30777 ECML lineside fires 02/09/11.

That is one reason I left the railways, I could have gone to Westbury or Exeter panel but could not stand the thought of not being able to actually see the trains - a legacy of my trainspotting days I guess. It was also quite nice, especially when a booking lad at Taunton West Station box of 136 levers to look out the windows and waive to the drivers and often the passengers too!

Just waiting for someone who may have seen the lighted sleepers at Doncaster and if true, this surely must have enabled platform staff to report to control or the signalman especially if they had to extenguish the fire.

Bell signal 2-1 - out of section and time to go.

Nick

 

30777 left Newark NG on Lorry Last week and is now at Great Central.

 

Heritage Railway magazine is reporting that there is now officially a ban on steam on the ECML Monday-Friday as a result of this incident. Can anyone verify that?

If so it seems reasonable in the circumstances but one hopes it isn't the thin edge of the wedge - after all there are other key routes where a steam train failure could cause just as much disruption at peak times. I suspect this is a move to placate East Coast Railways to some degree........

 

Yes it probably is. Hopefully this will only serve to increase the concentration of ECML steam at the weekend!

 

It is the inevitable knee jerk reaction that will help appease TOC managers, but do nothing to solve the issues that actually caused the the loco to start fires. It will also cause issues for RTC and Steam Dreams who have run very successful mid week tours on the East Coast. Virgin & First Great Western will no doubt be looking at this case carefully. Heritage Railway led heavily on the fact that 2 ECML services also failed that evening contributing significantly to the delays, something that was virtually unreported by the press and TOC's on the night. It seemed much easier for East Coast Railways to let steam take all the blame. Steam really must do everything from now on to ensure avoidable incidents like this simply can't happen in the future, as another incident will just lead to more restictions now the precedent has been set.

 

ECT handed out letters of apology for the delays but only mentioned the lineside fires and omitted completely the fact some some of their own tat had failed and screwed things up further south.

 

Does it surprise you that the press did not report the service train failures ??? The English Press (probably the same worldwide) only report out of the ordinary things. Local radio might tell you i f local train services are delayed and sometimes the National BBC service will report on the wider angle including motorways when extreme delays occur. Do we ever get to hear of bus breakdowns; no course not and frankly we don't want to. So you're quite right that everything possible needs to be done to avoid steam problems which will be reported quickly.

 

I hope this isn't the start of a bigger clamp down on main line steam. Is there a need to reduce the amount of steam tour taking place in relation to the amount of main line loco’s available to run these tours. If the amount of tours taking place increases year upon year and continues to increase then we need an increase the number of loco’s available to run these tours. Failure to reduce the amount of tours or to increase the size of the main line loco fleet will possible incur more loco failures on the main line. There are people out there just waiting for another steam tour to fail again and the argue the case to remove steam off the main line all together. Then if we are lucky we would be only left running trips on secondary lines.

 

As I said on the 4492 thread:

Sad news. I am sure lessons have been learnt from the unfortunate one-off event earlier this month. Hopefully given time NR will reconsider this ban, but in the meantime the movement should take it with good grace and prove ourselves worthy of such a reconsideration.

 

There may be a dilemma for the strong personalities running the tour companies. Do they meekly accept this restriction to their operations and risk further erosion of their open access to the main line? Or do they immediately challenge Network Rail as to their right to impose such a restriction. Both RTC and Steam Dreams have midweek trains using the ECML before the end of the year, if they continue to be advertised we may assume Network Rail's right to impose such a restriction may well be under challenge.

 

So why should someone with an impecable record like Tyseley or Ian Riley for example be prevented from running there and then should they wish because someone else got it wrong ?, that would be like banning Freightliner and DRS from freight work because DBS cocked it up, surely a case by case basis would be more sensible, although i agree weekend running only would be a smart move on the ECML, i would rather it be voluntary rather than imposed upon.

 

The article did, however, close with a remark that the situation was on probation..............maybe this may soften towards Christmas......one can only wait and see

 

As has been touched on already David, I suspect the under current is a total dislike of having 19th Century technology running on a 21st Century railway system. And any incident will be used to start the removal process.

 

Lineside rumour yesterday seemed to suggest there could be quite serious ramifications following this incident with regard to future insurance premiums for running steam on the mainline. If true, it could be a challenging time ahead...

 

The problem here is that, in reality, it is the TOC that is being punished and both the Tour Promotors, Loco Owners and those wishing to travel are 'Collateral Damage'.

 

I think we have to take this on the chin and hope that at best it is just a seasonal problem. At worst we could be on the slippery slope ....

I know if I was running an East Coast TOC then I'd be pressing for the same measures right now - my board, shareholders and customers would expect no less. Unfortunately we have to live in the real world and now need to re-establish reputation for steam's reliability and fitness to operate without inconveniencing the majority of rail users.

 

If I were in 'control', I'd probably have only allowed weekend running on the core north-south routes, too, if only to pre-empt the possibility of such mishaps occurring. There should be no real problem in terms of getting bums on seats on a Saturday (although there is now a danger that there could be two trips on the same day, leading to the cancellation of one or both). The only fly in the ointment under the new regime is the severe restrictions now imposed upon what caused the problem in the first place: positioning moves. They will have to be re-routed via 'quieter' lines, I suppose. Regardless, this is what has happened, and we must accept the consequences without the 'yeah, buts', and hope for the best (which I am doing, as I haven't yet done King's X-York!).

 

I got to be carefull how i word this, but wasn't the problem more originating from the Loco/Support Crew than WCRC ?

Funny how those against Steam because it's old don't give DRS grief for running Class 20's and 37's some of which are nearly as old as BR Standards, surely those who blatantly have no idea of the mechanical side of running steam shouldent be allowed to voice an opinion on it as that's dangerous, once having travelled on a preserved line at 25MPH doesn't make you an expert on steam, mainline steam is maintained to an extremley high standard, possibly even higher than some of todays traction, the problem as i see it is Managers at TOC's like East Coast these days have very little experience of being Railwaymen, preferring to recruit from other fields than look for many who know the system inside out, and these people know next to nothing about steam, their impression of Steam is something than does 25MPH and breaks down a lot, when we all know that the reality is somewhat difference, therefore i ask how can it be right that someone so ignorant of something is allowed to voice an opinion on it and it makes such a difference ?, these decisions should only be made by those who actually have a clue what they are on about, not some silly 25 year old making guesses on what his grandad told him.

 

Of course - if there were a formal overarching body to represent the industry instead of single voices all trying to promote their own interests, there might be an industry wide understanding of what happened that day - how a loco with an FTR green light came to cause havoc, how to stop it happening again, and no knee jerk reaction like East Coast trains have demanded from Network Rail.


Retires to corner to stroke chin, drink beer, and wait patiently to be proved right yet again - despite the howls from the naysayers! :behindsofa: