Flying Scotsman

But not with a turboprop. Still needs to be piston powered.

 

Radiator stubs? Don't you mean exhaust stubs?

 

Extra dark sea grey and sky to be exact. Did they last long enough to get the later grey and white scheme?
Thread drift? I should say so. We must be off the coast of South America by now.

 

Re: 6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010.

I think you should point out that it wasn't his choice to not have the vacuum brakes working, it was all fitted and working. That was done later because the blower exhaust pipe was leaking and the ejector exhaust was commandeered for the blower instead - they both go through the boiler. The internal pipework on scotsmans boiler was never checked properly when it was overhauled. Having disabled the vacuum part of the system, someone then sold all the parts. So that when the NRM decided to re-instate the vacuum brakes they had to start again from scratch. Everyone can now make up their own minds who they think took these decisions, and who pocketed the money from selling the vacuum brake parts.

I am not involved in any of this in any way. But I've heard the full story of what happened from someone who was involved at the time, and I don't like to see the implication that it might be the fault of someone who is blameless and no longer able to defend himself.

 

Re: 6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010.

Quite right, TenWheeler. To erroneously blame a dead-man without knowing the full facts (and mis-spelling his name into the bargain) is somewhat distasteful

 

Re: 6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010/2011

some answers to oakfield and tenwheeler mr kim was a very good friend of mine, no one is blameing any body thats left to people on this web site, all so kim did not work on royal scot, this is bad saying this= pocketed the money from selling the vacuum brake parts. parts are still at southall,which was on scotsman, vac cylinders were life expired with bad cracks in them , all so scotsman was the first loco to have full air brakes as a test bed and done to john duncan drawings and specification, and if you know about air brakes you dont need the parts we took off, also iam not a good speller fish7373 81C fitter

 

Re: 6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010/2011

I would agree that wasn't what you said, however there is a not insignificant amount of money which seems to have disappeared, between Marchington buying Scotsman, and then paying for a full overhaul at Southall in 1996/7/8/9, and then her condition in 2004/5 under NRM ownership. According to the BBC News website (click here):

So by 1999, if this report is correct, £1 million had been spent on a three-year overhaul, after the locomotive had been bought for £1.5 million.

What exactly was the £1 million spent on - we have seen similarly sized locomotives overhauled for roughly half to 2/3rds of that sum?

Probably a stupid question, but exactly why does Southall still have components belonging to Flying Scotsman? Why weren't these included in the NRM's kit of spare parts for Scotsman when she was originally purchased? If these parts were NOT sold on, and Southall still have them, that is...?

But you do need the tender handbrake, which were cut to fit the air brakes, if The Yorkshire Post's report that has been linked to several times in this thread, is to be believed. So are we to - on the basis of that you've said, and The Yorkshire Post's article - believe Scotsman neither had the air brakes nor the tender handbrake working when she was sold on to the NRM?

I do not know the ins and outs of air braking systems by any means, and would never claim to do so, so I can only take your word for it that whatever was taken off Scotsman was not needed. But something here doesn't add up to me when you have the tender brakes being reputedly cut to fit an air braking system, which you are now stating wasn't on the engine when it went into NRM ownership.

 

Re: 6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010/2011

when scotsman sold to nrm it was loco only, fish7373 81c fitter

 

Re: 6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010/2011

What about the spare (at the time) A3 boiler and cylinders?

 

Re: 6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010/2011

There is something rather odd about all this.

I attended a meeting at the NRM about 3 years ago, and one of the people working on Scotsman showed us around the engine during the visit and some of the items discussed in this forum were mentioned in detail. I dare not expand further on that, but take it from me that if anything it was significantly worse than I have seen on this forum so far, and the amount of work that has been expended in recent years speaks for itself, surely. He did say that they had chased up the vacuum brake components, notably the drivers brake valve and ejector and were told they had been disposed of. That may or may not be true, but it is what the NRM worker told us. Also, my understanding is that there was nothing wrong with the handbrake, but the water carrier (second tender) did not have a handbrake, and Southall, or rather the management, had got away with not fitting one on a technicality.

To my mind, all of the original parts from the locomotive belonged to it. Following that line of thinking, how much of the engine could they have removed before it was delivered and still called it complete? I seem to remember that the nameplates were kept and sold later, which was a neat trick if you're in favour of such things. When you pay the sort of price that the NRM paid for Scotsman, I would have thought it would be reasonable to expect it to be complete with all the resources that were part of it as the entity that most people regard as Flying Scotsman.

 

Re: 6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010/2011

If what Fish has told us above is correct, they are still in existence and still at Southall. So which is correct...?

Interesting. The A1 Trust had got as far as completing overhauling the frames of the tender before selling them back to the then owners of Flying Scotsman in 1998. Click here. Whereas Jim Rees was quoted in 2007 as saying that the handbrake had been cut, the tender needed chocking up, etc etc.

That seems reasonable, yes. I'm left wondering how much of the £2.5 million which was used to buy the engine in 2004 actually saw all of its assets.

 

Looks as if 4472 has been stripped down to frames ( on jacks) boiler removed, wheels removed and pictures of some of the cracks...
If it is to haul the Olympic torch around the UK in mid year next year.. It's going to be a mammoth job to fabricate the frame stretchers, weld up, reassembly, test and turn it out by early next year !

 

Yes, with all that work to be done and the running-in and testing, late May / early June seems to be more realistic as I hinted at earlier.

 

Re: 6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010/2011

The boiler went to the NRM with the engine, and was subsequently sold to the owner of 60019. The boiler itself having been fitted to 60019 on BR in the 60's and replaced at the engines last classified overhaul with its current boiler. Alan Pegler bought it from BR when it was a spare boiler lying in the boiler park. At least that is what one of the guys at the museum told us had happened. Someone mentioned that the spare boiler had come from Salmon Trout, and we were told that was a myth and the above story was then related.

At least one of the cylinders has already been used to replace one that was broken when a new liner was put in at Southall with too much interference fit. It swelled and cracked the block. There's a story doing the rounds that something similar happened to 60019 when it was overhauled, and that the same people were involved. Goodness knows where the other cylinders are now. They weren't mentioned at all.

 

Re: 6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010/2011

When Flying Scotsman was purchased by the people of this country (NRM), one cylinder from 60041 Salmon Trout was part of the deal. The NRM were aware that Scotsman had a duff cylinder when the loco was purchased. Indeed, a repair was carried out on said cylinder during the winter of 2004/2005. Scotsman was used during the summer of 2005 on the Scarboroughs, but it was obvious that a heavy general overhaul was needed. Hence, this is where we are today. Perhaps Anthony Coulls could confirm whether the cylinder from Salmon Trout has been fitted.

 

Yep, one of 60041's cylinders has indeed been fitted.

 

Thanks Anthony.

 

Thanks for keeping us posted!

Out of interest, is there a list of other A3 parts that have survived? I find it facinating that although nearly all of them were cut up, there are still parts around from those long gone brethren of 60103.