Discussion - All Night Train Services behind preserved steam ;)

Hi everyone,

Just a thought. We are all aware that the SVR at Kiddy does very well at its annual steam gala by doing an all night service behind steam, with both freight and passenger services. I was wondering, are these all-night services only well attended because they are at the SVR or is it because they are the only place that does all night steam services?

Say, would you pay for it somewhere else if main line engines, maybe on a shorter preserved line, ran all night for a gala? Maybe to try a completely new experience with passenger & steam hauled freight trains?? Let me know what you think...something to think about.

Best Regards

Sir Gomer

 

Personally, I'd say 'yes - probably'... I think the crux of it would come down to how much shorter this preserved line might be... That said, it's not all about length either! If travelling all night, I'd want to be on a line which feels like it's going somewhere - the SVR manages this, the NYMR likewise, but some shorter lines such as Keighley manage it too. I feel this would be of increased importance if spending 36 hours or so riding up and down! As for other lines, I'd certainly like to see (and be willing to pay extra to see) trains running into the night, but I'm not sure about through the night... Maybe running until 9-10pm might achieve much of the same with substantially reduced costs? I believe Swanage, and to an extent Keighley, amongst others, do this for many galas.

 

complaints from neighbours?

 

Not necessarily Tony May...not once a year and without "alot" of noise

 

I'd say the simple answer would be to write to the neighbours in advance, explain what's going on for that weekend and that weekend only, and enclose a couple of complimentary tickets - could soon pay off if a few of them visit and start spending in the bar/buffet/etc! Won't please everybody, of course, but could appease a fair few!

 

Another point is you need another shift of staff who are prepared to work all night as well as the existing day staff.
SVR manage it but I dont expect many smaller railways could.
Swanage gala runs until midnight,KWVR runs to 2130.

 

One of the best galas I've attended all year was Talyllyn's Allnighter. Steam every hour from 5pm till 8am if I remember with a beer tent 1 end and the cafe the other. Wanted to attend IoWSR event too but couldn't make it due to work. Done SVR night trains for the last 5 out of 6 years (again work got in my way) and last 2 years I've done all 3 days. There's a different atmosphere at night as it's more enthusiasts though you still get a fair few of Joe Public turning up.

One thing the SVR has in its favour is a decent local catchment area, goes from somewhere to somewhere and is easily accessible from the M5.

 

The latest running on KWVR is at the Beer and Music Festival (This weekend!) when the last train on Friday and Saturday leaves Keighley at 2355 and arrives at Oxenhope at 0020. From the staff point of view all night running would be a problem - staffing Damems station and crossing would not be for me. It's in a lovely spot in daytime but the neighbours are not the most friendly and an evening or night shift would be a nervous time.
As a neighbour, I live on the hill on the east side of the valley, opposite Oakworth Station and look down to Damems Junction passing loop. With the wind in the right direction, you can hear the steam trains from leaving Damems to exiting Mytholmes Tunnel, near to Haworth Station. That's a great sound during the day or in a peaceful evening but being woken up every hour and a half through the night would not be popular. Robert Heath's suggestion of writing to the neighbours would be cost prohibitive. There's a lot of them within earshot of the KWVR.

 

I know that to alleviate issues with neighbours the SVR sends out letters, reduces train lengths (less thrash = less noise; also means you haven't got an issue with platform lengths) and uses the larger locos - again on the grounds of less thrash = less noise.

 

Yes, because Mickey 46443 is a big powerful loco that makes no noise...

 

So does any railway have a servicable sleeper car...

If a railway was to operate all night and have a sleeper / restaurant on the train I'd be glad to pay hotel rates for the experience.

 

But it is only on 4 coaches which is fine for it. At least it is reasonably quite runing, 43106 is quite noisey.
The SVR does have a breakfast train using the venture vehicles. A proper sleeper would be nice, it of course depends having the proper rolling stock and if it actually pays

 

As for more railways doing it, as it stands, it is a unique selling point for the SVR. So I wonder if more did it, would it affect the number of passengers for all as the novelty could wear off?

 

I think Kje7812 makes a good point about novelty value, flooding the market may mean all lose out.

Regarding 46443 - perhaps I ought to have said 'tends' to use larger locos! Naturally it doesn't always work out!

Sleepers - well most railways, certainly the larger ones, have a few old sleepers dotted about in use as volunteer accommodation - the issue being that with all night running volunteer accommodation becomes very important, so you couldn't spare them for a service even if they were serviceable - which they generally aren't! The only sleeper preserved in operable condition not used as accommodation is the gorgeous clerestory at Bishops Lydeard - but I don't think the WSR would allow anyone to actually use it!

 

It's also worth mentioning on the section between Falling sands Viaduct and running paralell to the Mainline in Kidderminster (ie past the houses) the SVR has a section of Welded track, presumably to cut off the 'clickaty clack' at all hours.

 

Sort of. WSR has an old Fishguard one. Needs some work on the brake equipment (or did 2yrs ago) but it's the closest you'll get I reckon. We looked into using it for SSS2 and it was unbelievably close to happening. A number of things though (mainly the brakes) forced us into a rethink though sadly.
http://www.wssrt.co.uk/sleeping.htm

 

I remember that, the idea we were working on was to bring the sleeping car in and you would run behind City or Turo at night, there were quite a few takers
It was so close to happeing but due to brake issues we had to drop it
would of been a first

 

I noticed the welded sections around Vic Bridge back in May. Shame, because I think the 'clickety-clack' of the 60ft rail sections is something integral to the atmosphere of branch lines in the steam era. I'm sure there are many economic reasons for using welded track but at what cost do you ebb away at the intrinsic atmosphere of what's being preserved?

 

I suspect that very few heritage railways will be able to afford to renew life-expired rail with brand new rail imported from China. Most will be on the lookout for s/hand track panels from redundant sidings or cascaded track from secondary route renewals, both of which will come in 60ft or 45ft panels.

I agree with Martin, the sound of carriage stock passing over 60ft track joints is something to be cherished. It used to be part and parcel of railway travel years ago but is dying out on the big railway now. We need to be aware that these sounds are a part of railway history and would be sorely missed by our valued customers if welded rail became widespread.

John.