General NRM update/news/comments thread

I hope I'm not opening a can of worms with this!

I noticed that on NatPres we appear to be lacking a general NRM thread, as exists for many other museums and railways so I thought I'd start one, as I visited the NRM at York yesterday and thought I'd like to share a few thoughts.

It being half term, it was exceptionally busy with a very large number of young children and families, but this didn't detract at all and the whole day was from my and my Grandfather's point of view thoroughly enjoyable. Highlights definitely include 6229 (my Grandad was brought up in Carlisle in the 30s so can remember them for real!), the 'Crab' (stunning paintwork), the massive Cuneo of Waterloo station (some delightful cameos to be seen) and the warehouse, always a favourite of mine for the sheer multitude of gubbins! I especially liked the SR worksplate with 'of N. Ireland' painted on, presumably from the filming of Oh! Mr. Porter and an exquisite brass model of a signal gantry.

So an excellent time was had by all.

Now, a spot of constructive criticism. I appreciate that with the demise of the NRM+ concept, or at least its delay, the comments I am about to make the NRM are probably not in a position to act upon, but just a few ideas.

Firstly, the story of goods trains was I thought rather poorly told, with limited interpretation. You or I would look at the J52 on a few wagons and know the backstory - the majority of visitors wouldn't.

Secondly, carriages. Unsurprisingly a majority of carriages in the NRM are either very old, or very posh, or both! Naturally, accessibility to these is limited to preserve the fabric of them - in the main they haven't been quite so rigorously 'restored' as many of the locos in the collection. However, this means that the public - again, not enthusiasts - aren't going to be able to effectively picture what it was like in an old normal non-corridor or compartmented carriage - an experience now totally gone on the modern railway. I thought that having one of each on display with the interiors accessible to sit in and walk through would be a great help - Mk1s would be fine, I know that such can be found at most heritage railways, but that isn't quite the point - many NRM visitors may not have visited a line.

Finally, and this is probably the most 'pie in the sky' idea - what do people say to the concept of a 'National Model Railway Museum'? The story of model railways is a rich one, and many people both enthusiast and non-enthusiast alike would find it interesting to have some proper interpretation telling those stories. The reason this idea occurred to me is the sheer amount of models displayed, but not effectively interpreted, in the 'Warehouse'. It was also worth noting the popularity of the toy and model train event that is going on this week.

My idea would be thus - for an annex of the NRM, in the same vein as Shildon, opened specialising entirely in model railways. Obviously the NRM could and would retain some models, and there would naturally be a part to play in such an annex for genuine items from the railways, perhaps for comparative purposes. As with York and Shildon, movement of items would be easy and frequent to help stories be told. It just seemed a shame that so many wonderful models, some by modellers and some by railway works for railway purposes should be hidden away in plain sight.

Anyway, just a few ideas, not meant to be a knock on the NRM in any way - the museum has a hard job pleasing us all and does spectacularly well in doing so.

 

As for an annex like shildon for model railways. How about Crewe heritage centre. Its lease is up for sale. haha.

 

Not quite what I had in mind...

 

So as this is all "pie in the sky" Where would you want to locate such a place? More south? Would it also contain space for some Standard Gauge stock to be held?

 

Well, to be strictly honest I envisaged this thread being less about the pie in the sky, more general comments, news and discussion, I felt my first two points were more worthy of debate.

Anyway, my concepts of an 'NMRM' - if there were space at Shildon or York - which I appreciate there isn't! - it could be a museum within a museum. Basically it would tell the story of model railways - there are similarly specialised toy museums out there. Obviously model railways are not in an enclosed bubble, so ideally the interpretative displays would 'bring it all together', which would naturally include there being 'the real thing' on display too. It's just the NRM has so many wonderful models and so few on 'proper' display - through no fault of its own I hasten to add. Models such as the fantastic architecture models of Gorton works and Edgehill yard in the Warehouse tell a story quite separate to that of Hornby and Bassett-Lowke and it's all there to be told.

 

The only thing I would say about NRM's huge collection of miniature locos in the warehouse, is that considering they have the full ability to restore full size locos and then let them run. Then surely they could use a couple of the 7 1/4 inch gauge locos, on their outdoor miniature railway rather than the red "diesels". They would be a relatively simple and cheap restoration in comparison. The other idea could be to loan their 3 1/2, 5, or 7 1/4 locos out to model engineering societies in the same vein as their standard gauge loans. To be restored and run then put back on display properly, costing NRM very little whilst giving a ME club/society a lovely and possibly unique engine to work on, and play with and getting some publicity for it, which miniature railways need as much as their std gauge counterparts.

 

There is already a museum at the Midland Railway center for model railways.


http://www.midlandrailwaycentre.co.uk/public/swanwick.html

 

They already do this, albeit with only two locos (as far as I know). Their 7 1/4 inch gauge WD 2-10-0 is at the Great Cockcrow Railway in Surrey where is currently undergoing an overhaul. Also the EAR Class 59 Garratt 'Mount Kenya' has recently gone away to be thoroughly overhauled and eventually it will run alongside 'Mount Kilimanjaro' at the Echills Wood Railway.

 

Getting away from model railway and back to 'general' NRM topics for a moment, one thing that always strikes me is the complete lack of atmosphere. Why? Just as much as relics and polished brass, railways are about sounds and smells.

I am astonished that the museum hasn't invested a mere few hundred quid in a simple, distributed audio system, on which could be played a compilation of railway sounds.

The Great Hall is a large ambient space which, with suitable recorded sound effects played from strategically-placed loudspeakers, would create the unique atmosphere of a mainline station with a large train shed. Steam locos, station announcements, whistles, horns, clanking couplings, carriage doors slamming, guards whistles...

The thing is that the museum must already have an audio system of some sort, as it will be required for evacuation in the event of emergency, etc. The loudspeakers might need upgrading, but it's really not rocket science. And the sounds could be on an hour or two hour long loop, to give plenty of variety without repetition too often.

Mr Coulis, if you're reading this please PM me. I work in the sound industry and can help. It would make a massive difference at both York and Shildon for a very small investment. Probably the equivalent cost of a fusible plug or three for a certain LNER steam loco... :wink:

PS And if night clubs can have strawberry-smelling smoke effects, I'm sure the NRM can get those which smell of... smoke!

 

I believe they are working on exactly that for the Station Hall, which is being reorganised.

Chris

 

The PA system was certainly used in the NRM's early days. My sister was one of the "object cleaners" when the museum opened in the mid-1970s and they regularly used to look and point out of main doors whenever the sound of an express train came over the speakers. This usually caught out a few visitors.

Richard

 

Mr CouLLs is on holiday at the moment and will respond when he's back next week.

Cheers
Anthony (on tour)

 

wasnt there a story doing the rounds a few years back of Hardwick entering the museum in steam, after a tour and scaring a little old lady when it sounded its whistle? , The problem with audio and visial effects are that they have to be realistic to be worth putting in, and then theres the dreaded hse implications for instance to be realistic you would have to have smoke and steam also which could reduce visability to the point where harm could be a posibility to the public and a high pitched whistle could make some elder people and children jump and there would no dought be some scam solocitor on a no win no fee waiting to claim millions from the NRM /'government because little johnny jumped and hurt himself on an exibit im not sure if it would be even advisable to put in extra things because of the percieved risk , on a personal note, i would love to see something that gave visitors the sights, smells and sounds of what our terminal stations used to be like , or to be able to smell the hot oil and coal smoke of an otherwise dead engine

 

Sorry Anthony, thanks for the correction (makes mental note not to think of these in future... :wink

Blimey Martin, you are a little ray of sunshine aren't you?

You've got rather the wrong end of the stick here, old (or should I say young?) son. The noise of a loco whistle or diesel horn doesn't need to be at a volume to make Granny's dentures fall out (or make little kids drop their ice creams) in order to be convincing. I'm talk about ambient sounds, as if you were in the middle of a large station and hearing these things all around you, not walking past Mallard and having a recording that makes you hit the ceiling in fright.

As for the smoke idea, again, I'm not talking about blotting out whole areas of the museum! And artificial ambient smells don't have to be 'smoke' - ever been near the bakery in a large supermarket? That smell ain't coming from the ovens. (Sorry, the nightclub analogy was a bad one)

As with so many things in life, less is invariably more. Subtle use of such things is generally far more convincing and 'lifelike' than something with all the gentle charm of a chainsaw-wielding maniac.

By the way, how many 'no win no fee' solicitors have successfully claimed against preserved railways when a loco has sounded its whistle and little Johnny jumped? My guess is that the figure is, to use a Monty Pythonism, 'nearly one'. :wink:

 

i hear what you are saying, but there is always one who would try , i can see the merrit in your idea, i actually agree with you theres nothing more entising to me than the hiss of steam or the smell of steam coal and oil and to hear the beat of an engine rebounding off the walls, i can remember one trip to york, and an audio of an engine being played , well i thought it was until i noticed everyone had gone out to see what it was i recently had a visit to Steam at Swindon and one thing that shocked me was that when you entered the foundry mock up, there was no effects, a wall of heat and a lot of noice would have made the impression so much better

 

A well-known railway with which I am involved recently received a letter of complaint from a lady that, whilst she was standing on the platform looking at it, the steam loco had emitted a loud piercing noise which had left her deaf. i.e., the whistle.

 

Indeed even my local miniature railway has a large notice about the locos emitting hot smoke, steam, oil so keep an eye out. We recently went to the Bluebell and got an A$ page about the railway, half of which was 'health and safety' stuff about not leaning out, hot steam etc etc.

 

A very good idea in my opinion.

 

The LSWR tri composite is accessible in this way, and we have plans for more as long as conservation issues allow.

Fuller reply coming this week as I'm still technically on leave.

 

I must have walked down the wrong side!