Jeremy Hosking is after another BR Standard.........................

A pertinent point. The SVR must be one of the top grossing railways in terms of income yet cannot afford to overhaul an engine bigger than a pannier without substantial support from groups or individuals. Where is all the money going?

 

Don't forget that four years ago the SVR were running Kidderminster to Bewdley only for the best part of a year. The money raised by the appeal and from the likes of Advantage West Midlands and their insurers didn't cover all of the cost of fixing the line and the income lost. Then there was the cost of track repairs following the 43106 derailment and various major infrastructure works like those done at Arley and on Sandbourne viaduct earlier this year.

It's all very well having a large fleet of locomotives, but you do need a railway to run them on.

 

Methinks you are forgetting the consequences of the disaster that happened at the SVR a few years ago.

 

I think the problem is more ingrained than before the floods of 2007. The notes in the current edition of the SVR news regarding locomotive overhauls makes for interesting reading.

 

Hi Neil

What have the Romans done for us?!

It's only when I started thinking about it I realised what's been spent

Kidderminster refreshment rooms - The Valley Suite
Kidderminster catering dock
Kidderminster canopy
Arley station drainage works and Sandbourne Viaduct - £500k, plus new rail at Eardington (new rail required now every year, to replace that inherited from 1965!)
Wheeldrop £200k
Reroofing MPD and fitting doors £240k
The railway's share of loco overhauls 43106, 2857 and overhauls in hand 1501, 6634, 7714 (boiler)
Hampton Loade works and loco repair following derailment
Highley footbridge
Shortfall on stabilisation works following storm damage £260k. £50k a year for culvert and drainage maintenance
Rebuild of canopy on Bridgnorth station
Increased security following theft
Hanbury Cottage purchase and conversion
Height working equipment at Bewdley Goods Shed
Increased charges coal, electricity, water, oil, metals
This winter the Pickfords roof alone will cost £250k plus the work in Bewdley Tunnel and the Bridgnorth by-pass bridge

Its geographical location is near to the four of the five constituencies with the largest unemployment. The recession has hit the West Midlands very badly. Pax numbers went 250k > 225k > 205k (budget). The 2010 revenue drop was £250k

(Also supported in part by grants, donations, shares, bequests)

The problem is longer term though in that it hasn't made enough profit, turned out enough engines or done enough civils/PWay. The plan, and new chairman, seek to address these. I hope they succeed and will buy new shares

Patrick

 

I'm surprised that Mr Hoskins is interested in such a small locomotive for mainline work. It has a limited haulage capacity, limited water capacity and limited coal capacity. I know it was once a mainline engine but that was a long time ago and the market has moved on since. Perhaps he just wants to help out the SVR by having the engine restored privately?

Regards

 

All he needs now is a new steam TOC and carriage operator to have some control over the operation of his locomotives. You never know!

 

The point about locomotives falling into the hands of "collectors" is an interesting one. 4472 had a couple of close shaves, once under the noses of the Americans. If anything I would say that the British preservation scene is in a position of strength at the moment in global terms, think of the repatriations that have taken place in past years, such as the Turkish 8F's/4079. You can cite many factors for this, such as the emergence of the HLF and benefactors such as Mr Hosking and Mr. Moore.

A deal like the one suggested is a win-win situation for all. SVR get 2 locos working and a Std 4 on the mainline. I guess there will always be some natural suspicion but as many railways are now coming to realise, ownership of your own engines isn't the be all and end all. It is important to take care of the sucession though and there are many form available, such as a limited Company or a Charitable Trust, both offer flexible ownership and tax advantages. These type of ownership models also mean that the locomotives concerned become more of a commercial enterprise with hire fees charged and banked so that monies can be invested in the engine's overhaul. A financial contingency of this kind is more and more important with the rising cost of overhauls and the anticipated "drying up" of donations in the years to come.

 

There's talk on here about mainline, although reports Ihave seen talk of a return to mainline condition. IIRC the SVR moved away from the mainline some time ago because of the amount of resource it used, and has (again IIRC) agreed with Taw Valley's owner that although restored to mainline condition, that engine is not intended to go mainline.

It will be interesting to see the outcome

Patrick

 

Most (all except P&DR?) lines do rely heavily on owning group/volunteer support to make the difference physically or financially to make the work on steam loco overhaul affordable at all.

This does not seem to be widely realised outside the ranks of those directly involved.

The big worry is that the age profile of owning group support is seriously distorted towards the upper active age range with the obvious effect that this will soon have.

There are quite a few younger folk joining the hobby but on the loco side most are intent on accumulating footplate time with not so many being inclined to play a part in the workshop. This aspect alone is something of a timebomb as deeper knowledge in all things steam is not properly passed on.

 

All this talk of what if's. When it comes to buying a locomotive and exporting Locomotives overseas...
You dont need JH to be the international broker, in fact with him, they are probably the safest ones in the UK.

Anyone could buy a UK locomotive an export it, and an ageing group or one short of funds are the most likely ones to sell it. That said I doubt anyone from over seas would want to export a Barry wreck, it would most likelky be a restored or overhaul able named locomotive.... All it needs is a wealthy Chinese or Arab enthusiast who decides they want an English train set...As a personal antique investment (like fine wines) to start a waterfall of mass export purchases. In deed I suspect several groups and companies would love this to happen as a means to cash in there investments and be profitable for their businesses.

 

If a premium price is paid and the thing is looked after then wheres the harm ?. Pendennis castle a good example.

 

I'm not at all sure that those working on 4079 would agree that it had been looked after!
It came back rather run down having been fitted with a number of non authentic parts - preservation? - only in the loosest sense of the word.

 

Engines that are used become rundown anywhere they are operated. Air brakes and different injectors fitted to Pendennis Castle (from info in pubic domain) hardly constitute mechanical herasay do they?

Isnt it the Swanage 66xx that has the all welded side tanks? Now they really dont look right.

 

For those who dont have access to the latest SVR News, the comments referred to in an earlier post are written by the soon to retire Bridgnorth works manager, John Robinson. They are quite lengthy comments, so I will summarise his main points, they are probably pertinent to many of our heritage lines.

1: Mileages have increased, the depth of repairs has increased, material costs have gone through the roof, and a heavy repair is likely to cost half a million. In the SVR's case they need to put through one heavy overhaul a year to survive.

2: Whilst the SVR has invested in MPD infrastructure, (wheel drop etc) it now needs to look after its greatest asset, its staff, and needs to pay proper salaries for a fully skilled and increased workforce.

3; Regular use means mileages rack up more quickly on heritage lines than with mainline engines. 43106 returned to steam in September 2009, and despite two lengthy spells out of traffic since, had 14500 miles on the clock by this July. John points out that in BR days up to half its steam fleet visited works in any 12 month period for heavy, intermediate, or casual repairs, in addition to work done at running sheds. John comments that when the SVR had 12 to 15 active engines failures could be easily covered, but not now the fleet is " near to the bone". He feels ten serviceable engines are needed to comfortably run the SVR steam service.
He comments that hiring out 43106 in the crucial late season was "an error", and says that this hire was only possible by having 92212 on scene.

 

The previous post makes very sobering reading, and its something that everyone up the sharp end can relate to , Talking about loco overhauls most workshops now overhaul to mainline standard because thats what insurance companies require but as remarked by others it doesnt mean that the engine will run on NR .
Its a known fact that costs in everything are rising , but income doesnt match expenditure , so thank christ that there are people like Mr Hosking who can fund these overhauls ,Also i dont believe that owners buy locos as an investment , there are very, very few owners who make anything from their engines and when they sell an engine , its because they have no other option,in many cases,or as recently an engine comes not needed , such as the pocket rocket , but it helped to fund the progress of 44871, and the NYMR got another engine that was suitable for its whitby operations and could be used further afield if the chance came up,
so at the end of the day, whats better for the SVR, to sell 80079 and use the money to get 75069 back into traffic and get a restored 80079 into the bargin, or to leave things as they are and have neither, there is one thing that no one has thought about is this, if say 80079 does go mainline and is away for a period, JH does have a large stable,and the SVR could find itsself with a visiting engine whilst that happens , he does seem to prefer to base his engines on preserved railways with mainline connections rather than centres , the only exception being Bittern and of course the newer locos such as 70000 as yet have not got a firm base

 

Good post Martin.
JH does have his own 'base' though ?
As the cost of running our preserved Railways goes up this cost will ultimately find its way to the Ticket booth. At which point market forces come into play - higher prices inevitably leading to fewer customer visits, less demand, less frequent services. less loco miles/ fewer locos needed.
The worry is that there must be a tipping point at which point vistors are put off by the prices and/or waiting around and dont come back, ever...