LNER 4771 Green Arrow

This locomotive has been on my mind for the last month or so. How many here miss her? An LNER locomotive with much charm if there ever is one.
Maybe not the most versatile of the mainline steamers that we have witnessed but she would be great for steaming in Northern Scotland and Settle & Carlisle Lines.

Now, I have forgotten what the issues were when she was retired(can someone remind me?).

Are there many who think that NRM has lost out on a wonderful oppurtunity? Certainly not as much drama and hype around her as her famous cousin. I don't think (but I can be wrong) that financially the cost of overhauling and repairing what those issues are would cost as much(any locomotive cost are expensive) though.

Thanks to anyone who has more of a grip on this engine, (I know that I'm not as knowledgeble than many here)

Mike1522

 

I think 4771 is one of the most missed mainline locos of recent times among enthusiasts, I have great memories of watching her storming over the S&C on VHS tapes with my Granddad and got to see her in the metal when she visited the Bluebell in 2003(?). When she was withdrawn, the firebox was quite tired and she requires a new cylinder block. Not the end of the world for most classes of loco, but the V2s were built with a mono-bloc, i.e. all three cylinders are one big casting rather than three separate ones. Making it a very expensive and difficult task to create a new one.

 

Thanks Matt. That mono-bloc.
I'm sorry, That is sad.

 

I remember a great day out. SSE, Green Arrow, Bill Andrews driving , and a day at the seaside. Seems a long time ago now, it was at the time that the SSE did 2 round trips in the day.
With the economy as it is I think funds for any project for anything are going to be thin on the ground.

 

Nearly 20 NRM locos and powered units under overhaul or in opeartion at the moment. Finances and manpower tight.
4771, 2500 or 6229? You decide. And you can't have all three at once...

Anthony on tour

 

Easy to forget just how many NRM locos are out there to be seen and enjoyed in steam. 4771 deserves a rest, and unless someone comes up with £400k for a new monobloc I can't see her steaming in the short-medium term, if ever.

My vote is for 2500 - the only one that hasn't steamed in preservation.

 

2500 has steamed in preservation... I was on her at bressingham.

Stan

 

2500 is already 'in the frame' to be returned to running order, iirc. This is with a view to the York-Shildon shuttles, which I think deserve to succeed

 

Instead of the loco that Mr Riely is doing up for NRM it would have been niece for 4771 to have been given priority (ducking behind high wall)

 

That was exactly what I was thinking.:rockon:

 

Maybe so, but it doesn't quite have the popular appeal does it (I bet if you swapped nameplates the public wouldn't notice the difference though...)

Apologies regarding my error with 2500. Of the three though, it is as mentioned the only one planned to return to steam in the near future and it hasn't had the prestigious mainline career attracting enthusiasts left right and centre the others have. I quite like the idea of a Jube that goes as well backwards as it does forwards

 

Well I just saw the Exchange rate from the pound to the dollar today, did the math for Scotsman and I don't believe that a mono-bloc would be costing in the neighborhood of 3 Million Plus US dollars($3,000,000) for Green Arrow.

Right now $1.61 = 1 pound in UK currency.

 

By my valuation I reckon a monobloc would be $650,000 approx. (£400,000). When you take the rest of the overhaul into account...££££!

 

While 4771 currently is fitted with a mono-block, other memebrs of the class did have 3 separate casting. I know I am restarting an old and bitter argument between authenticity and practicality here, but a view often expressed on here at the time the loco was withdrawn from traffic was that the NRM would well fulfill its remit to take the worn mono-block off and display it in the museum, and then return the loco to traffic with a cylinder arrangement made up of 3 castings (£150k?) or, as even greater heresay, dare I say 3 fabreicated cylinders (£100k?). In any future lengthy period out of service, these could be stored and the mono-block refitted, but I think I would argue it would serve better as a separate exhibit, enabling the vast and complex nature of this single casting to be appreciated in a way just not possible when actually fitted to the locomotive.

Steven

 

I agree with what your view Steven, it makes no difference whether it's a monobloc or 3 separate castings. Frankly some of this talk is given too much importance - the Talyllyn have a new boiler built to a 'heritage' design for No.2 but heritage to who? You can't open it up and show members of the public how it was different to the old one and nor does it have any major differences in appearance. You can apply the same points to the V2 and reach the conclusion that casting a new monobloc is a waste of time.

 

there is a visual difference with the different castings, the steam pipes being external on the 3 piece.... I can see what kind of argument that would create around here...

 

can I venture to say that if 60800 had the three piece arrangement, there would have been a different class member in original condition preserved.

 

I think there is a strong argument for the more complex single casting purely on the grounds of skill retention, especially if it was made in the UK. In that instance I would have thought there was a good chance of getting Heritage Lottery funding for the project, with a useful exhibit for the NRM / NRM Shildon at the end of it i.e. original life expired block, new pattern plus the story of how it was made.

Regards,

Dan

 

Assuming that the £400k figure for the new cylinder is an accurate figure (and I have no reason or evidence to doubt it) I am just interested as to what this figure is made up of. In simple (very) terms would I be right to break down the process into, drawing of plans, creation of pattern, casting, machining, installation?

Just interested really as I am completely in the dark as to the breakdown of costs between materials and labour, just seems a hell of a lot.