Linear Scrapyard Award 2011

Does Carnforth qualify for this- their yard is pretty atrocious.

Bob.

 

Agreed. Not only is it full view of a main road, theres actually no railway there to run the stuff on!

EDIT: In fact as they are the suburban electric group, I guess there are no private railways to run their stock (a lot of it has been sold and moved out recently too I believe). Eventually I guess someone will have to set up a preserved railway to preserve modern traction with third rail and overhead lines.

 

Although I agree with much of this, it has gone away from the point I was trying to make. Horsted Keynes yard may be a kind of railway carriage oubliette but the Bluebell does not dump its forgotten treasures (e.g. Brighton Director's saloon) alongside the running line to get in the way of the view. Non-enthusiast passengers may well be interested to see a job actually in progress but the sight of utter decay or nondescript junk will not impress them.

 

Can i ask, do we look at this as preservationists or as members of the public?

As a preservationist we all want to see historic vehicles restored, and pre grouping rakes established at our railways rather than the endless diet of Mk1's, But as a visiting member of the public what would they wish to see? whilst a restored southern coach, or a brighton 4 wheeler would be very nice to ride in, would they understand that the rust bucket or rotting coach body that they just turned their nose up at could one day be another pristine vehicle? coaching stock seems to be the poor relation at most railways , i can remember seeing at the bluebelle years ago, an pristine loco, hauling coaches with paint peeling of the side panels , im sure that things have improved,this is just an example,

The reason why there are often quite a lot of stored coaches and wagons , are because often carrage and wagon departments are kept busy just keeping what stock there is in running condition when you start adding woodern construction into the mix , you often dont have the time availible to deal with any additional work , so you have to store the coach till you can allocate workshop time , by which time, you are looking at a full rebuild anyway

 

OK Paul lets look at it from another perspective then?

On the MHR at Ropley there was and is a long line of out of ticket locomotives known as the "siding of doom".

One particular locomotive that springs to mind is "Swanage" now thankfully being restored. For years this was an ideal candidate for restoration but nobody knew who the consortium of owners where and it took years to find out because nothing was in writing agout who these people were.

Another example is John Bunch,s Locomotives. One (U-Boat 31806 ),is in trafffic, however the other four on the Railway are out of traffic at least until the Loco agreement runs out in 2014. Until then they are in store so to speak in the sidings until that date.So let me ask you what are we ,(and the owner), supposed to do with then for the next three years? They cannot be in traffic nor can they leave the Railway so where on earth do we go from here?

A lot of siding space has been cleared with a combination of restorations and one or two have moved away. IMHO there is only so much one can do in a short space of time so if anyone has any suggestions, I would dearly love to hear from you.

Best regards
Chris Willis:

 

I'd nominate the Gloucestershire Warwickshire - it's a mess at Toddington and a mess at Winchcombe.

 

I disagree. They are a dedicated group, working blooming hard to preserve what most railways wouldn't even give siding space to.

The stuff that was sold and moved on was the irrelevant or no-hoper stuff. I used to doubt the guys there, having known it under the Cov Rly Centre name, but as the Electric Railway Museum, they have a mission statement, business plan and energy and time to do it. Electric preservation is where steam was 40 years ago - go to one of these team's open days (always FREE) and meet them, see what they're doing, buy a coffee or guide book and support them. If I still lived in Leamington I'd go and join them. Yes there is some scruffy stuff still there, but most of it is now sheeted or being painted.

Being not on a preserved railway is their strength, they do not have the politics or factions of people wanting to influence/move them on/interfere.

Give them a second chance, they are great folk.

 

Firstly, that's a question of interpretation. The Bluebell does quite a good job in the C&W of explaining the process from chicken shed to gorgeous restored gem. That's open every day, plus of course more in-depth tours on high days and holidays. I wish we did a better job of interpretation in the loco department, though the loco works is less well suited physically to having any real attempt at permanent interpretation displays. I'd like to see, for example, 80100 and 80064 displayed as a kind of "before and after", at least until such time as either enters the works for overhaul.

As for what the public wants - again, I can only speak for the Bluebell, but it's amazing how packed our vintage sets get, especially when some of the more esoteric stuff is out. Mk 1s have a place in preservation (provided they are properly restored and presented) but in my experience the public are perfectly able to distinguish a Met from a Mk 1 - even if they couldn't exactly tell you how old each was or from which railway company - and given the choice, they vote with their bums as to which train they catch.

Tom

 

That might be your opinion but I could not disagree with you more. Toddington was a bit of a mess in the early 1980s but it is excellent in comparison to those early days. No doubt both Toddington and Winchcombe could be even better ( an additional carriage shed is planned for Winchcombe and the David Page shed at Toddington is due to be doubled in size but the matter of a lifeblood draining embankment slip at Gotherington and now at Winchcombe (Chicken Curve) has slowed these projects.

 

I am sure I am not the only person to be amazed at this. Nothing surprises me now

 

That may be your view but I would disagree with you most strongly! Toddington was a bit of a mess in the early 1980s but it is far better than most other heritage railways of a similar "maturity." Both Toddington and Winchcombe could be even better but the small (huh!) matters of embankment slippage at Gotherington and now Winchcombe (Chicken Curve) has meant that the planned carriage shed at Winchcombe and the planned doubling of the David Page shed at Toddington have had to take second place.

 

Perhaps the problem is one of familiarity. If, as an enthusiast, you visit/work on a railway regularly you might come to expect and be used to its eyesores and accept them in the overall context of the railway but really the railway needs to be viewed through the eyes of the disinterested visitor to get these things sorted out if it is to prosper.

A first time visitor however will form an impression of the railway based on much more limited & probably single experience.

Prominent scrap, dirty toilets, poor catering, expensive parking etc will all be important input into their impression as will the more positive aspects of the experience.

 

I don't think this thread is taking into account mitigating factors or comparisons. Much as I appreciate the GWSR's plight - and have donated, I hasten to add - there is no denying that both Toddington and Winchcombe have plenty of eyesores lying about.

 

The question of what to do with derelict/redundant stock is a very emotive one for some people/railways. I do know of one location that had great success with a tidying up project by the simple introduction of a form of rental charge on items of stock stored on the railway. I believe the actual implementation of it was a little involved so as not to penalise those items actually in traffic. Those who had no intent of restoring their stock simply moved it away and those who did had a little kick up the behind to get them moving on it.
Of course this gives the new problem of where do the displaced items move to? So perhaps the problem is not so much solved as moved!

 

I think that's somewhat unfair as until the 'embankment disasters' it was my impression that the GWR was slowly addressing this problem, there's the new 4 road shed at Toddington and as mentioned earlier there are plans for Winchcombe too, obviously these have had to be put on the back burner now, but i feel the suggestion that the GWR was doing nothing about it is somewhat wide of the mark.

 

What do you class as an eyesore? A BR coach awaiting restoration? the remains of a class 76xxx (out of sight in a headshunt north of Toddington?) One person's eyesore might be the next project. As I said earlier, the GWSR is trying to put "eyesore" stock out of sight and under cover but money is tight at the moment. It is true that some items may not be pristine but perhaps the alternative is to scrap anything that can't be restored right now - not an easy decision! The biggest heritage railway eyesore in my view is the crowds of people in 21st Century garb but without them there wouldn't be a heritage railway!

 

I was referring to the lines of rotting diesels/dmu and rotting GUV's etc at Toddington and the lines of rotting Mk 1's and rotting wagons on both sides of the lines at Winchcombe.

My wife (who is not an enthusiast - just a normal(ish) passenger) thinks the whole place is just a mess. She thinks it's just a scrapyard and is very reluctant to go there.

 

david1984 - All the railways mentioned on this thread could be said to be 'addressing this problem' in one way or another, so picking the GWSR out as 'the' one that is doing so is hardly fair. I never said that the GWSR was doing nothing about the problem, and naturally now is not the time that they'll be worrying about doing so. I am not specifically having a go at the GWSR, I am a regular visitor, I like what they're doing, I've helped them financially in my own small way to overcome their current situation and it is the biggest mitigating factor out there, I agree. I think the GWSR is going to go very, very far.

Kinghambranch - naturally as an enthusiast I tend to agree with you - a rusted up ex-departmental Mk1 is a project and an opportunity, not an eyesore. But I have interpreted this thread as speaking from a 'normal' visitors perspective - and they want shiny bright paint and picturesque views. The GWSR is not as bad as many, but the fact is that it is worse than some.

What is to be done about the situation, on any railway, is a moot point, and there are no easy answers. I appreciate that. It's just that someone mentioned the GWSR on this thread, I forget who, and was promptly jumped on. But they had a point.

 

I find the arrogance of this comment quite staggering.

Are you suggesting that people should only be allowed to to visit heritage railways if they are dressed in 19c costumes or something?

Personally, I'm delighted that crowds of people appreciate our heritage enough to come and visit and travel and pay

 

Good grief man, don't be so pompous! You clearly didn't read the rest of my post! I was trying to be ironic and clearly failed in your case! Of course we need visitors, that's what its all about! I wasn't being arrogant at all but I will remain very supportive of the GWSR. I have been a member of the GWSR since 1977 (when it was a railway society and before it became a heritage railway- I know that doesn't beat your "1968" tag but you must be older than me)and don't visit it very often these days sadly but, when I do, I do see progress in making the railway's main stations better with fewer items of stock "lying about." There is always room for improvement of course. Regarding people in appropriate "garb" of course railways do actually put on "period dress" days, and the GWSR has done so on occasions - schoolchildren's "evacuation" experiences etc and I know the Bluebell has done some wonderful stuff with period pieces too but I would not be so daft as to think that we don't need visitors, however they are dressed. I suppose what has really gripped me about this thread is that a couple of people have come on and singled out a railway which I am particularly attached to and have issued a generalistic destructive criticism rather than being much more positive by suggesting constructive criticisms. A common criticism to the ordinary visitor quite rightly is toilet facilities - those at Winchcombe and Toddington are excellent in my family's view so I guess they've passed. Regarding all the Mk 1 stock at Winchcombe, some has already been removed and the intention was to place the rest under cover in a shed at Winchcombe for future long term restoration but the current embankment requirements have negated this for now.