THE KENTISH BELLE ARMISTICE DAY (Tangmere now via Bromley)

Calling steam engines 'kettles' and diesels 'boxes' is equally childish in my opinion.

 

I would say that the driver of 'Tangmere' is making a good job of controlling the wheelslip and keeping the show moving. That said Tornado is on the line where I would expect run off / leaves from the trees to create a bigger problem.

 

I think I have just put two & two together.

 

The fact that the rest of the train service appears to have operated without undue difficulty suggests that the RHTT regime is adequate. In planning its RHTT circuits NR probably doesn't take account of heavy trains with only three powered axles and a non existent traction control system (other than a firm hand on the regulator) running over given stretches of route. Charter train operators are probably required to take this into account when planning what motive power might be provided. Particularly at this time of year when adhesion difficulties will without doubt be encountered.

 

Lets keep to topic and stop the insults please.

 

Good for you.

 

The term "box" for a diesel has been in use since the early 1960s by a very wide range of people. It started because many of us were not familiar with the various classes of diesel locos being introduced so it just became a generic term for that type of motive power. ie. when asked by a 1960s modern traction fan, (yes, I think there were some), "what class/type of diesel was it you saw, it was much easier to reply, "sorry, no idea, it's just a box to me".

It's become just one slang word amongst vast numbers of slang words in use in the English language. I don't see anything childish about using slang words. Especially one with such a long history of use.

And, differing from buseng, I don't mind at all that modern traction types use their own slang for steam locos. I feel they have every right to do that. That's part of the world we live in of moving away from formality and using such slang. Long may it continue.

What I do finds a little distasteful is the constant undertone of insult and low level abuse that is directed at total steam fans on threads discussing steam hauled trains. To me it sometimes overlaps what I consider to be Trolling.

I've never visited a diesel loco thread on Nat Pres, (I assume they are here), but if I did, I wouldn't go there and start slagging off those whose interest is in more modern traction. Lively debate yes, but not Trolling.

 

How much better would Nat Pres be if people ignored slang terms that may, or may not be designed to 'wind people up.' Reacting to such jibes only encourages people to troll, creates work for the mods and gives Nat Pres critics ammunition to point the finger. A little more tolerence and thought before hitting the keyboard is all that's required. Let's enjoy OUR hobby, whichever aspect of it we favour.

 

If you think Tangmere was slipping a lot then you ain't heard nothing. Nice bit of driving in difficult conditions IMHO.

 

Given that unrebuilts are known to be light footed, i would say that someone in planning has slipped up it would have made operational sence to have kept the 47 on the back, after all the bulk of linesiders take pictures of the front, so a deisel on the back with instructions to assist when needed would have helped because of the leaf fall problem and might have helped the tour keep to time i cant see what else could have been done short of putting a black 5 upfront as pilot but theres no guarentee that even a blackie wouldnt pick up on the rail head conditions

 

Mr Yeti

I know not who you are or where you come from - with a name like Yeti perhaps you are from Asia?

What I do know is this. I love you. I love you for your passion for steam. I love you for defending use of the work box as I did the same back in the 60's. I love you for your very entertaining postings which often put others to shame. I love you because the sound of a Castle or Merchant Navy at full speed with rakes of Choc and creams and green coaches respectively sets your pulse racing just as it does mine and to think in 2011 we can still experience this is wonderful.

Finally I love you for being you. Yes you. Down to earth. No pretence. Just you.

If I were a woman in my 40's I would love you too and propose on the middle platform of Taunton station - as long as no boxes around!

By the way, I am not a woman in my 40's - quite the opposite!

So keep up the excellent postings and what is more, stand your ground when other try to lambast your excellent work.

Nick (NOT NICOLA)!

 

Thats the point I was trying to make. Autumn= leaves so whats the problem. Its all very well saying never put a diesel on steam charters but its these unfortunate events that cost somebody loads of money. I have said before that unless its for operational reasons or in this case leaves diesels should not be used but we dont want this happening to often.

 

Damn you Nick. LOL! Part way through your post I thought my luck had changed. A nice 40 year old woman, after me! Wow!

Until of course she meets the ageing, overweight Yeti look-a-like, who gets the Welsh press working overtime when my footprints, (I wear large mountain boots), are again seen in deep snow on their own on the harsh and for me, very slow winter climbs of Snowdon.

So I'm not from Asia, just a rare English, (Kent to be precise), Yeti who loves his steam, I guess like you do.

 

Official version gives 433 minutes of delays caused by the Martin Mill incident, owing to the further delays to service trains when Tangmere arrived at Dover Priory, the rear of the train was overhanging the platform end, blocking use of platforms 2 and 3 by service trains. Because watering was taking so long the driver was going to declare the train a failure but was persuaded to carry on. There were ideas of moving the train to Folkestone West for water, but that the tanker at Headcorn would have taken too long to get there due to the road traffic conditions, so local fire brigade from Dover called to help with watering.

Worryingly it is stated that there was evidence that the railhead had been treating prior to Tangmere's passage, and that no other trains had reported poor adhesion at the Martin Mill location.

Further delayed when at Tonbridge Up Loop, diversion via Orpington planned but there was confusion as to whether the train was permitted to run on the fast line between Bickley Jct and Shortlands Jct so it was run at 20mph between Bromley South {234 minutes late at this point!} and Shortlands plus the brake problems at Chelsfield (8 mins)

I'd much rather steam specials run without diesels on the back, and several recent ones in Kent have had a 47 on the back, but not appeared to have required them, but with this one it would have been wise, I think.
But it was all down to the train not getting a decent run at quite a steep bank in slippery conditions, a bit of bad planning but poor old Tangmere comes out of this badly, and I think it's a great engine and I hope that none of this leads to a rethink on steam operation!

 

You will find more tollerance of steam on WNXX than you have of diesels on here.

And you will find that the phrase kettle is used far more than the phrase box.

Where I work when a steam railtour is due to start you hear something like the following "...we have a kettle today and its due off platform xx at 0910".

Anyway...whats the problem with describing a steam loco as a kettle...its what they are....a boiling water device....

 

Yesterday was a day full of poor rail condition, i did several trips on service trains following both Tangmere and Tornado and on every trip even the 3rd rail stock was having problems with low traction! Admittedly not slipping to a stand but i feel it would have made more sense to have been pathed a waterstop at Canterbury West, therefore giving the loco a clear run through Deal and a sporting chance of getting up Martin Mill bank.

Video of Tangmere and Tornado up at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prOeiBrhzyA

 

I rather like a steam loco being called "a kettle" by the box fraternity buseng. As Steve says, it does boil water. And it doesn't convey any malice in it at all. Well not to me.

Anyway, sort of trying to get back on topic, I want to head off and read about 46201 today. Hopefully a steam trip not causing anyone any problems.

 

Really sorry to her of yesterdays troubles...it really saddens me when things go wrong on what is supposed to be day of enjoyment behind a steam loco.

Stan

 

Good..... I wonder what happened to my other post, seems to have dropped off the radar....