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B17 nameplate sells for £40,000

Discussion in 'Railwayana' started by 46223, Dec 11, 2011.

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  1. 46223

    46223 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    A good investment for someone!

    BBC News - Manchester United engine nameplate fetches £40,000
     
    46223, Dec 11, 2011
    #1
  2. cg

    cg Well-Known Member

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    Manchester United sold for £40k.

    If only...
     
    cg, Dec 11, 2011
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  3. huochemi

    huochemi Part of the furniture

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    It is shown as withdrawn on the realisations list, so sounds like it was "bought-in".
     
    huochemi, Dec 12, 2011
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  4. cg

    cg Well-Known Member

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    cg, Dec 12, 2011
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  5. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    Someone has dropped a clanger there, fancy not taking the simple expedient of checking the back, where the a replica makers have been casting in their name for some time now.
     
    RalphW, Dec 12, 2011
    #5
  6. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Dodgy reporting as always : "The nameplate, which was originally thought to have been designed by Nigel Gresley, .................." So HNG designed nameplates did he?
     
    Spamcan81, Dec 12, 2011
    #6
  7. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    I bet its never been to old trafford either!! :)
     
    Martin Perry, Dec 12, 2011
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    1 person likes this.
  8. Neil_Scott

    Neil_Scott Part of the furniture

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    What checks does the auction house take to verify what they're selling is authentic?
     
    Neil_Scott, Dec 12, 2011
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  9. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    Sheffield Railwayana Auctions should be reasonably good at spotting dodgy items but this seemed to have slipped past them..
     
    RalphW, Dec 12, 2011
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  10. kdf9

    kdf9 New Member

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    This is their statement on the SRA website:-

    Unfortunately, following a rigorous scrutiny of the “Manchester United” nameplate with our customer, we have had to withdraw the item from sale. When removed from the backboard it would appear to be very clean and does not have the usual knocks and scrapes normally expected from a loco built in 1937. The football also appears to have been manufactured to fit. We were reluctant to remove the plate from its backboard prior to the sale because we believed in its provenance and did not want to spoil the paintwork on the front of the plate by removing the bolts. We are sorry to say that in this situation we were caught out.

    We feel that under these circumstances, this course of action is the correct one to take as we would not wish to be associated with the sale of an item that we could not prove was 100% genuine.
     
    kdf9, Dec 12, 2011
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  11. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Like most Manure supporters then. :)
     
    Spamcan81, Dec 12, 2011
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  12. 46223

    46223 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I sold a headboard through Sheffield Railwayana Auctions over 20 years ago. The first thing I was asked was, 'Do you have a BR receipt', which fortunately I did. Did no one ask to see a receipt of some sort in this particular case I wonder.

    Ok, not having a receipt doesn't mean the item is a fake but it should have put the auction people on alert, prompting
    them to scrutinise the plate BEFORE putting it in the sale, and also, if it was a genuine plate,
    checking to make sure it hadn't been stolen.
     
    46223, Dec 13, 2011
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  13. Guest

    Guest Part of the furniture Account Suspended

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    Oh dear, oh dear - I attended Derby on Saturday to reclaim property of mine which had managed to get to the point of sale without my knowing, due to the death of the person who had custody of the item, and my own failure to keep a written record of what I had loaned out.

    This is however a headline making cock up and one with which Ian Wright, who founded SRA, and who now merely sits behind the gavel for the owners, will be most displeased.

    All auction houses take great care to avoid forgeries and where a vendor is high profile that usually assists - this plate had reputedly come in from America, but to admit that they had not taken the plate off its backboard is schoolboy stuff and will do messrs Dickersons and Moakes reputations no good at all.

    Its not as if forgeries are not unknown and I have handled many in my time before refusing to have anything to do with them. What a shame when the company that started it all comes a cropper like this!
     
    Guest, Dec 13, 2011
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  14. 46118

    46118 Part of the furniture

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    I agree with TBF above. Given Ian Wright's acknowledged expertise in the field of UK steam loco nameplates, I can only assume that he was not consulted by the current owners of Sheffield Railwayana Auctions before the nameplate was sold.
     
    46118, Dec 15, 2011
    #14
  15. simon

    simon Resident of Nat Pres

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    Surely the give-away was the plaque beneath the name plate that reads "Champions of Europe 2011-12" ? :)
     
    simon, Dec 15, 2011
    #15
  16. kdf9

    kdf9 New Member

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    An article by Geoff Courtney in the current Heritage Railway states that this is the same nameplate that was sold by Ian Wright in his Sheffield Auction in February 1994. It made £17250 then.
     
    kdf9, Dec 15, 2011
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  17. std tank

    std tank Part of the furniture

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    Forgery is a bit harsh. Replica is the correct word. Even Manchester United do not have an original plate. They have a replica.
     
    std tank, Dec 15, 2011
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  18. Guest

    Guest Part of the furniture Account Suspended

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    Forgery with intent to pass off is exactly the correct term.

    Replicas with clear casting or other markings to distinguish them from originals are perfectly OK - but I use the language that I do because attempted fraud by using a forgery is a criminal and despicable offence, and it is not unknown
     
    Guest, Dec 15, 2011
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  19. 5944

    5944 Resident of Nat Pres

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    SNGLPT were given a nameplate (Kimbolton Castle, off another B17) a few years ago that my dad and I went to collect. Not only did it have the receipt, it was still wrapped up in the brown paper tied up with string that the guy had collected it in from Doncaster in the early 60s!
     
    5944, Dec 15, 2011
    #19
  20. kdf9

    kdf9 New Member

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    It would now appear that it's not a replica/forgery

    See:- http://www.sheffieldrailwayana.co.uk/man u.htm
     
    kdf9, Dec 19, 2011
    #20
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