White Cliffs Circular, 34067 22/12/11

Times on Steam Dreams.
Platform 7 at Victoria 9:23-9:42, Steam Dreams - operators of The Cathedrals Express steam train trips
hope the link works.This one I'm certain won't be going over the SLL at Brixton!

Edit: now on UK steam too.

 

Hmmm - lets hope it makes it up Martin Mill bank this time

 

With no booked stop at Deal this time, I would hope it will make it as I'm guessing they still won't be allowed a diesel on the back.

 

Why wouldn't they be allowed a diesel? Very unlike NR! Unless it is a train length problem? Otherwise I'd have thought a diesel would be likely.

 

Have you been asleep? The thread on 34067's mishap on Martin Mill bank stated quite clearly that trains through Shakespeare Tunnel cannot have a locomotive attached to the rear as well as giving the reason why.

 

Have no knowledge of NR operations at all but I was on the 09/12/11 tour with 35028 on the front 67025 on rear that went through Shakespeare Tunnel non stop with a train formed of Mark Is.

I also remember 73096 (with 73107 also on the front for the return) and 33103 topping and tailing through the tunnel in 2004.

Andrew

 

The reason that others gave for no diesels on the rear was that clearances in the tunnel are tight so an evacuation would be from the rear corridor connection. It's the outward opening doors on the Mk.1a and Mk.2s that were quoted as the problem. Do the doors on the VSOE Pullmans open inwards? If so that may explain why 35028 had 67025 on the back.

 

The train he's talking about was formed of Mk1's.

 

The doors on the VSOE Pullmans do open inwards so this probably does explain the presence of 67025 on the back of 35028's train.

Hope somebody updates this thread tomorrow once 34067 is safely over the bank. Having been a passenger aboard the 11/11/11 trip so would hate to think no lessons had been learned from that fiasco. Then again this is mainline steam so we better keep our fingers crossed !

 

Which of the trains mentioned in AMP's original post are you referring to. In the original post he mentions a train hauled by 35028 on 09/12/11 on which he travelled. That was a VSOE Luncheon train so would have been formed of Pullmans rather than Mark 1s. He also mentions a train hauled by 73096 in 2004 that ran with a class 33 on the rear. Is it this train you are saying would have been formed of Mark 1s ? If so that may well be the case as the reasons given for diesels not being allowed on the rear of trains recently may be due to rules imposed by NR since 2004 ?

 

If I may try to clear up the confusion. 35028 was due to take the VSOE around Kent on the 3rd December but for reasons unknown this was changed to the usual Surrey hills route. 35028 then hauled a second VSOE around Surrey on the 9th, then hauled the Canterbury Christmas Special on the 10th, which was routed via Shakespeare tunnel, was comprised of Mk 1 stock and had 67025 on the rear.

Still no closer to answering why 35028's run on the 10th had a diesel and 34067's ill fated run in November didn't, but hopefully that's cleared up the confusion around which train is which.

 

I was just reading this bit mainly -

 

That's not quite what I was getting at, both trains were routed via Shakespeare Tunnel, 34067's train didn't have a diesel due to the clearances preventing an evacuation in the tunnel, but 35028's train did have a diesel despite going via the same routing and both trains using Mk 1 stock.

Incidentally, I was at Martin Mill to see 35028 and she definitely had the measure of the task

 

Not asleep no just getting out and about in life you know rather than sat in front of a computer reading every single post ever made on this forum. And good job too a lot of that Armistice Day thread is a load of absolute drivel.

For others who don't know why diesels aren't permitted on the back through Shakespeare Tunnel I finally discovered it is because the tight clearances either side mean that the doors of stock that open outwards cannot be opened sufficiently for people to get out in the event of an emergency evacuation. Hence the rear door must be kept clear to allow evacuation this way, and therefore a diesel loco can't be there. I'm sure there'll be one of you who didn't know before like me so know we both know.

 

Thanks, that's interesting. The reason why 35028's train on the 10th December, (not the 9th as initially stated in "david1984's" original post), was allowed a diesel at the rear remains a mystery. Could it be that one of the vehicles in the consist that day had inward opening doors ? Some Mark One sets used by West Coast Railway Company have the odd Met Cam Pullman in them, (with inward opening doors), through which passengers could evacuate in an emergency. The 10th December train was operated by DB Schenker however so I would have expected that set to be pure Mark One with all doors opening outwards. Be interesting to see what happens today.

 

I'm told that the box on the back of Clan Line's train has some sort of driver escape hatch. Through which the train passengers could disembark if needed. Please don't question me on it. To me a box is just an oblong mass of metal that exudes exhaust fumes.

Now as for today's train hauled by Tangmere. Aaah. Now we are talking about a real form of motive power. Yes, it is metal. And I suppose in some lights it could be said to look a little bit oblong. And I think it does exude exhaust fumes from time to time.................... Doooooohhhhhhhhh......

But I don't know why it is allowed a box on the back through Shakespeare Tunnel. Maybe the desire to avoid a repeat of last time over rides all else. And with 12 cars and a damp and greasy day in Kent I'm not going to argue about that.

As for what happens as Shakespeare Tunnel is approached, I think the great man has words for that, "Time shall unfold what plighted cunning hides:"

But my favouritre quote is of course "Forsooth, a box a box, an acetelyne cutter for my box"

 

Through Redhill pretty much on time.

 

5 or 6 early at Godstone, cruised through with smoky box thingy ticking over on the back.

 

37685 giving a shove away from the Penshurst water stop.