WLLR level crossings

I don't think anyone is being "gricerish" over this issue as the location already has gates. I think it's more to do with the WLLR having to find £100,000 to do the work rather than it come out of the local highways budget. There is also the issue that there are manual crossings on the national network that cross far busier roads without problem so why single out the WLLR?

 

IIRC, one of the requirements for not having to stop would be that the driver has to be able to stop at the driver's warning light if the crossing isn't clear (a vehicle stuck or whatever). So the question will be whether the visibility is sufficient to make that possible approaching from the Llanfair direction. I appreciate that stopping distances on the 1 in 32 will be fairly short I imagine it will have to be a key switch or similar coming from Welshpool due to the station and loop.

 

Thanks for continuing to deal with the basic issues here rather than merely to "indignate".

You are probably spot on but I have not the necessary knowledge really to comment.

Paul H.

 

The driver's white light must be lit before the train can proceed. If he can't stop at the light, he shouldn't be driving.

 

Yes Andrew but if the driver can't see the light until he is within the stopping distance of his train, then it would be impossible for him to stop at it, even for a superhuman top link driver like yourself. So the point that was actually being made was that the signal would have to be sighted some way away from the crossing due to the approach being on a tight blind curve with a 1 in 32 gradient. Therefore the driver would be unable to see the crossing itself if for whatever reason he had to stop at the signal.

Of course this situation already exists approaching Glanypwll in the down direction on your own wonderful railway.

Tim

 

Err, should not the white light be situated where the driver can see it, enabling him to stop in time?

 

The query is not about whether the driver could see the white light - but whether the driver can see the crossing itself and satisfy himself that it is clear, by the time he reaches the braking point. (If the train is to cross without stopping, two conditions need to be satisfied: white light flashing, and crossing observed by the driver to be physically clear of obstruction.) Could the driver make that observation at Castle, without stopping? Maybe, maybe not, maybe if some vegetation is cut back: we shall see. The visibility is certainly rather poor.

 

Once upon a time I was a volunteer on the WLLR, and during the time I was a fireman I had to leap out of the way of a car at Castle - perhaps the incident referred by Hitch. Since then I have travelled reasonably extensively on both UK and foriegn railways, and there aren't many places that have such poor visibility both for the train and the road user. There is no realistic way to fix the visibility issue as the main problem is that the road is in a cutting and so is the railway (from the Llanfair end) as they approach the crossing itself, as Hitch says the time has come to move on and revise the protection arrangements. The outrage isn't justified. This has been a risky location for a long time, and there is more traffic on the roads around Castle these days, more than even 10 years ago since new houses were built there.
A manual crossing probably isn't the answer because someone would have to push the gates accross, which places them at risk, or you would need a gate box and wheel - which would need manning and that would have it's own consequences for a railway that runs now without any signalman at all on duty most days. The stopping and starting on the 1 in 32 hasn't been an issue for the last 110 years, but I think the ORR would prefer that trains didn't pause before crossing roads. However, in theory I suppose stopping for a driver to pull a cord (like the Westbury Salop crossing used to be set up) would possibly address the sighting issues. I think that a rolling approach even at a reduced speed would be a bit hairy since you are virtually on the crossing before you can see it from the loco, thus being able to see the crossing is clear and see the flashing white light and be in a position to stop if you had to, would require a very short reaction time. Not impossible perhaps for those in the prime of life, and not having an off day or momentarily distracted.
Put the lights and the barriers in. I don't know if anyone has spoken to them, but the RHDR worked out a way to put in very cost effective barrier systems built in house at a fraction of commercial cost, perhaps they could build one for the WLLR?

 

If the driver cannot stop in time after spotting an obstruction, it would suggest that whatever PSR is in force is too high.

 

This is exactly what hussra is saying, in rather milder fashion!

 

Zigackly!

 

I think that the problem will be setting a sufficiently low PSR that allows the white light and crossing to be observed as clear, at a point where the train could still be stopped. Even allowing for the curve and gradient I'm not certain that even a PSR as low as 5mph would necessarily achieve that, which was why I was wondering if it would need to be a stop, pull a string and then proceed once the level crossing has set sort of arrangement.