70000 Britannia "Royal Train" January 24th (Copy Pit)

With this train running tomorrowit is time to start a thread.

 

Try looking under 'Steam Traction' and 'Britannia'

 

Wot - no times!

(There again we all know them already -don't we?!)

 

mike1522 noted :

"With this train running tomorrowit is time to start a thread".

ANSWER : NO it is not !!!! Having calculated Royal Train times for 6233 on the North Wales route then published them on t'internet I can assure you that the trouble that created for the organisers - including the possibilty of replacing the steam loco at the last minute - made me appreciate that sometimes the web forums are NOT always the best place to disseminate information.

I suspect that the times noted on the other threads may result in someone losing their job and the increased prospect of greater security next time round when steam is used to ensure that NO-ONE finds out times before the event.

In this situation it's not a simple case of what you say - but where and to whom you say it.

 

... but it would still be nice see some photos after the event.

Richard

 

Footage of 70000 Britannia climbing up to Copy Pit Summit.

[video=youtube;s59GKQ5wYz8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s59GKQ5wYz8[/video]

Hope you enjoy.

 

I know this was close to home, Phil, but well done for braving the downpour and for posting the news so quickly. Nicely done, despite the awful conditions. Looks like 70000 was going well.

 

Having steam on the Royal Train as a secret is counter intuitive to secrecy.

I can understand security around military / government actions, and the Royal Train in certain circumstances. (For example royal travel arrangements last night / sleeping arrangements.. it's non of our business, and unnecessary and much more risky to publish that information).

However to put a steam locomotive on the Royal Train and then deny deny deny... is ludicrous...
The Steam Locomotive is an attraction to the train explicitly !!

Just try denying it ? - oh no that wasn't a steam train you just saw hmm ?
Most people wouldn't be able to spot the royal train from the VSOE, Northern Belle or Vintage Train's coaches... perhaps if you put a steam locomotive on Grand Centrals DMUs.. some people would believe..

Publishing the times of the Public Appearance on the train is therefore irrelevant.. after all we know the Prince's plans for the WHOLE DAY not just the steam train... and lets face it, if he's not safe on a train, then he's in positively dangerous territory walking the cobbles of Barnsley.

Steam and the Royal Train is a circus not a Secret.

It's not even national news, no coverage at all to date obviously the press is unimpressed, but for the times being on here.. then no one would know at all.. then the whole thing would have been pointless ?

The local public should enjoy the appearances they put on, after all thats what it is about... but only if they know what time to go.

On a side note..

Nice video.. noticed that a few of the windows were open at the front of the train... royal gricers perhaps ?

 

:doh: A diesel locomotive on the back? surely not, ask for your money back Charlie lad. eep:

 

thats not a diesel, thats a RETHEL.. Royal ETH EWS Loco

 

Whilst I understand the view that people might like to see the passage of the Royal Train - especially if a steam locomotive is at the head - there is also the view that if the railway considers it a security matter by restricting access to train times and sacking staff who pass on the details to a wider public then one has to respect the security concerns.

As noted I posted times of 6233 on North Wales based on my knowledge of Royal Train workings and my copy of the Working Timetable for the route which allowed me to guesstimate the train times during the day geared to the times given of the Royal Appearances during the day so that the many enthusiasts travelling by normal services could have a guide to decide where to take my photographs.

Well received ? Perhaps by linesiders but Brell Ewart later confirmed that my posting of the times had created a security situation that led to consideration of replacing 6233 by diesel traction; maybe linesiders felt there was no security risk but if the powers-that-be on the day decide there IS a risk there is NO ARGUMENT.

Much as I agree with the view that there is little harm in posting train times to treat the train as "normal" and perhaps thereby not drawing attention to it there is the security view that over-rides any other consideration and if posting times can threaten the operation of steam traction on such a rare occasion I must tend to the view of restricting access to information - or at least distributing by a less obvious source than the internet.

Having worked in the Home Office I am fully aware of security thinking - including dismissal for perceived security risks - hence my call for care to be taken when distributing information which security authorities consider to create unnecessary risks if revealed to too wide a public.

 

The situation with 6233 was different.. it was a significant first, many things could have happened.. after all it was the great unknown.
The risks failed to materialise (as they probably didn't exist to begin with).

Steam and the Royal Train was described as significant PR subsequently.
However that Potential is only realised if people know.

I think the only risk to today would be the risk of someone wanting to make a name for themselves by trying to create a risk from nothing to prevent the event... unfortunately there's more and more people today who can only make a name for themselves by creating risk from thin air.

However as demonstrated..

the times were published,
No one has raised this as an event cancelling risk
some people have had fun,
nothing untoward has happened
very few outside the towns affected have any clue whats going on,
the news are not interested
the only comments published so far in the local papers are less than complimentary.
Nothing comes up on google, the bbc , yahoo, sky, itv (forget international).
It would appear not news worthy outside the local area.


I would say that the risk has been contained.
Charles was at more risk in his old car going to the theatre during the London riots... than riding a steam train in the lancashire rain.

Has the engine been named yet ?

 

Looked absolutely fantastic,really gleaming and sounding brilliant too. Red nameplates in place too.

Anyway,few photo's here:
70000 on the Royal Train - a set on Flickr

Awful conditions but a once in a generation (lifetime?) opportunity to get steam on the Royal train so made the most of it.

Sounded fantastic climbing away from Wakey,was audible for a good mile or so,seen in my dad's vid

70000 roars through Warmfield with the Royal Train 24/01/12 - YouTube

Cheers,
Mark

 

Well done Phil. Good work in difficult conditions, thanks for sharing.

 

The Royal Train was preceeded by the 2nd "box" which I did'nt know whether it was a coincidental positioning move or was deliberate as in earlier years. Did anyone hear the "hoax" station announcements by Northern Rail that there was a twenty minute delay to trains due to a signalling fault? From my ovservation there were no delays.............

 

If "signalling fault" is the code word for a royal train, there must be loads of royal trains running round the network.

Richard

 

Lovely sound on the video clip.

 

That made me laugh......a cracker.....

 

With all the delays maybe royal trains should be banned ?

( I say in jest)

 

Yes,sounded fantastic