HOW MANY PRESERVED RAILWAYS WILL WEATHER THE FINANCIAL STORM?

Hi Noel:

That said Peak Rail have got their main line connection at the other end and work is continuing with the signalling and the Signalbox. Add to that the turntable that is operational so I think they are in a good position.

I do however agree that the extension to Buxton may have to be put on hold.

Regards
Chris:

 

Thanks for your kind reply
I have visited (and made a trip to the new terminus) PR in august 2011 but I haven't been very impressioned(exept their main shed which is a very nice building)
I 'm not sure that a turntable is a must and a guarantee of success( SVR and KWVR make not a lot of use of them!!)
regards
noel

 

Not sure if it is a good idea to name railways on this thread, all railways suffer from a basic lack of cash to a degree (with a few notable exceptions)- it is just that the figures are bigger on the larger outfits (both income and expenditure). There aren't many railways out there who don't need cash and aren't appealing for it.
We can't really make the mistake of assuming that the public see things through our eyes either- most don't mind whether there is an Austerity or Pannier on the front. What really matters is how good your business is- do you have clean toilets, how many days are you open, are you easy to get to, have you got diverse operations that cater for different markets- if one stream of business takes a hit (i.e families) have you got others to make it up(schools/filming work for example). A lot of smaller railways have persisted with Thomas events when bigger outfits have ditched them for example
Heritage railways can have a broad appeal - families, OAP's, wine and dine, theme events,corporate, Driver Experience to name but a few. The only market that isn't really catered for is the teen market and even that became interested after Harry Potter! It's really up to the management to maximise appeal.

 

BUXTON!

I would say buxton is an asperation, don't thing the current management would even go that far, getting them to go Bakewell is probably pushing it. It would probably be correct to say bakewell will have to be put on hold for the while, assuming management are in favour. As for Buxton is consurned, any realistic plan would say get to Bakewell first and then Millersdale would be the next goal.

 

Hi all,

as someone without easy access to UK railway magazines or similar sources of information: Are you sure that your claims are correct? Quite a few railways seem to have recorded record figures in 2011.

I honestly can't see a single railway failing because of the economic climate right now. You might and will see catering and souvenir sales going down but the loss of income from those who can't afford a trip to a railway any more seems to be eliminated by the gains from people who can't afford their third trip to Spain and visit local attractions instead.

Kind regards

Christoph

 

There are many factors which influence the profitability of any heritage railway. The numbers of passengers, users of cafeteria and shops etc., may be increased but that does not necessarily equate to good, in the black, bank balances. Costs are spiraling, as most of us know, putting greater stress on companies trying to make ends meet. Luckily for many of the heritage railways they are ably to rely on a number of unpaid helpers: if they had to be paid then that company might well find itself in the 'failed' category.

With the high rise in motorists fuel costs it seems, in the South West of England anyway, that many people are only using their cars for essential needs. It is quite noticeable in South Devon and only yesterday the tolls on the Tamar road bridge (between Devon and Cornwall) were said to need to be increased due to a drop of 5% in toll paying users crossing the bridge. I would not be surprised if this pattern is also being reflected elsewhere in the United Kingdom. Some Heritage railroads rely on people traveling some distance to their lines, so if this is the case they may well have lower passenger numbers this year.

Contrasts with costs of holidaying abroad are unchanged it seems. Recent news, on internet news pages and maybe the national dailies, still suggest it being cheaper to holiday on a well known Mediterranean island rather than at home in the UK! So, the progressive Heritage lines, who offer a diverse choice of events throughout their operating season, should make the grade: complacent ones could well fail - unless the old faithful enthusiast digs deep onto his/her pockets yet again.

 

Michael Draper was banging on about this 30 years ago - saying that some preserved railways would fold imminently.

It never happened.

I don't think it will happen now, either

 

This was said in 1973/74 when the cost of petrol rose to 50p per GALLON and you could go to Majorca full board for £10 per person per week - less than the cost of hiring a caravan for a week in Wales

Preserves railways survived though

 

The latest edition of SR paints a bleak picture for the Bowes Railway, which always seems to be only just keeping its head above water (not that that's their fault of course). They are unfortunately located right up in the top of the country in what is arguably a fairly depressed area generally, and sadly their unique credentials - which should make them an important heritage site - are of limited importance to the majority of enthusiasts who remain besotted with ex-BR lines and rolling stock.

 

I think most lines will be ok. The preservation movement is very good at rallying for a cause, financial, influence or physical.
Most lines seem ok when it does to managing finances and costs.
sadly it's infighting, lack of political support or ownership disputes that seem to kill them off.

 

Most of the businesses going to the wall at the moment seem to have high levels of borrowing which they can no longer support. Fine in the good times but comes a downtown the costs can't be lowered to suit. Most other costs can be (lowered), get rid of staff, close loss making shops, sell some assets, move to cheaper premises; but loan payments are inexorably there.

I suspect that most preserved railways do not have high levels of debt, therefore they are in a good position to cut their coats according to their cloth. To balance outgoings against income. And survive.

 

That kind of comment smacks of sour grapes and ignores the fact that politicians or other agencies do NOT readily hand out multi-million pound cheques. In the case of the WHR, it was clearly seen as an investment because of the many millions of pounds that it was forecast to bring into the local economy. That forecast has proved to be correct and it has been a very wise investment indeed. Neither should it be forgotten that a large proportion of the money was also raised from individuals and the railway itself was, for the most part, built by volunteers. The current work, to widen the Cob at Porthmadog, is being financed in house, another example of money going into the local economy. There is still a lot to do, such as station buildings at Beddgelert and Caernarfon, not to mention the need for additional rolling stock and so on.

It is in the interest of the rest of the 'Preservation' world that it continues to thrive and be able to be held up as an example of what can be achieved when dealing with public bodies in the future.

Meic

 

Not all railways had record years last year. There is no denying that people are being more choosy where they spend there cash. Also with people staying in this country for holidays it stands to reason that the railways near the coast or major holiday spots will do rather well. Others will be lucky to cover budgets. For example, coal is at near £200 per ton, luckyily my line, the GWSR is pretty flat, but we still have a 91k coal budget for 2012.

 

That's expensive coal. I was buying it for £158/tonne delivered in 2011. Admittedly, the GWSR is in the middle of nowhere and transport costs will be higher, but not that much!

 

Whoever puts money in be it government grants, members, appeals to the general public etc most of the heritage railways only survive due to such generosity and that will probably continue to be the case as costs continue to rise. How many railways truly could be run as commercial operations and continue without such support.

Some of the figures are frightening. The SVR is apparently looking for £4million, the WHR has done well at gathering outside support but still has been reliant on many people supporting it and at least one individual being very generous. If at some point in the future many of our our railways lost such benefactors or the ablity raise the funds from appeals many of them may struggle to survive in their current form.

 

Your last comment I found most interesting, " many of them will struggle to survive in their current form". I think that comment alone is open to further debate as I agree with nearly everyone that preserved Railways WILL survive, but in what form I wonder?

Is it not time to go back to our roots and rely more on volunteers than paid staff or find a balance somewhere in the middle?

Regards
Chris:

 

For the avoidance of doubt, it should be said that the SVR has a "needs/wish list" list which totals £4m - it's not the case that it needs £4m to survive.

I guess most of the larger preserved lines could come up with a similar list

 

Interesting point - the problem is that the bigger the line the more chance you will need paid staff. There are some roles on Heritage Railways that are full time jobs- for example a railway could be missing out on serious business if there isn't someone on the end of the phone answering queries midweek. Locos and carriages/ wagons need constant attention especially in view of the paperwork and procedures required by SMS's. It seems to be asking a lot of the volunteer workforce to turn up every day of the week (although there are many that do). A mixture of paid staff and volunteers does seem to work in most cases.

 

Problem is that in most cases if you didnt have some full time staff, would you be able to run a service , engines and stock needs repairs and very few railways have enough stock and locos to be able to put off jobs until you have a volunteer with the right skills to be able to do the jobs and to sign them off plus with volunteers, you are limited to what ever hours /days they can do ,and in some cases have they got the skills? , at least with most paid staff you know that they have the skills and experience its got worse in recent years when you have to carry out more checks and have to keep records of every exam etc and more of your time is spent on running repairs

 

Sour grapes – fine if that’s what you want to call it. But you’ll be surprised just how much resentment there is across the UK in various heritage railway mess rooms towards the political multi-million pound handout given so freely to the WHR to build a modern 25-mile steam railway between Caernarfon and Porthmadog.

I know and understand there will always be winners and losers. But if the WHR is honest, the amount of funding handed out for just one single railway project was out of all proportion.

Chris