Glyn Valley decision due

Its not so much a question of competing with other railways or which gauge we may use its our ability to link existing and developing attractions in the area. For instance over 90,000 people visit Chirk Castle every year but there is not quite enough to make a day of it. Add a railway into the mix and it makes other attractions worth having a look at as well as helping to move them about. The Glyn Valley Tramway is deeply embedded locally and most of its volunteers are in easy walking or cycling distance, we are also the nearer to the border than any other Welsh line and also accessible by rail and canal !

 

Thanks for the web site details, I got there in the end ;-) I've also added you to my facebook.
I for one think that you can't have too much of a good thing, so the more railways the better (as long as they are Narrow Gauge)

 

You can follow us on The Glyn Valley Tramway Trust and

Glyn Valley Tramway Trust | Facebook

 

Not trying to start a fight online but have the two sides that have been at logger heads now come together to work as one?

 

The Design Study commissioned by the Trust gives various ideas for joint marketing of the Tramway and a role for a heritage centre at Glyn Ceiriog and an operational section of the GVT from Chirk. The Trust wishes to work with other organisations including the GVT Group and believes it is in our mutual interest to work closely together. We recognise the importance of cooperation. Efforts are being made to try and bring this about and it would not be helpful to say much more.

 

"What a depressing viewpoint. We carried 370,000 people last year. With a UK population in excess of 60 million, that's peanuts. There's still plenty of potential customers out there."

Yes, of course, Fr/RhE is top dog and rightly so. I rather doubt that your organisation would be too happy with yet another project close by for a start. Indeed, the restoration of the WHR by the FR is arguably because the FR did not want a competing line in the same catchment area. The reality is that other lines are not doing so well at all. 60 million in the UK but are you seriously suggesting that many more will make a special trip to Wales to ride a train? I doubt it, there are steam trains aplenty all over the UK!

 

Yes we think they will. We are conveniently situated close to the border just off the A5 and accessible by rail and canal. We hope to enhance the tourist spend from visitors to one of the largest Caravan Club sites in the country, Chirk Castle, the Ceiriog Valley, and the Shropshire Union Canal rather than be the main reason for a visit. The Glyn Valley Tramway Trust www.facebook/glynvalleytramway

 

So you been to Blaenau then and Port closes at 4. The Glyn are just stsrting out and your kicking down allready. as you drive to Wales yuo pass them twice one on the way where and o0n the way back

 

GVT would seem to be in a completely different geographical and tourist market to FR/WHR being in short range of a huge W Mids/NW population allied to the extremely popular existing canal, castle and dyke. To suggest that it shouldn't be reinstated is like saying the L & B is too close to the WSR.
Its most unfortunate that the support is divided over the gauge, the half standard 2'41/4" was adopted under horse power, changed to 2'41/2" when steam was required due to quarry expansion and Snailbeach locos hired in, the new B/Peacock were stock designs built to whatever (narrow) gauge was required and the war surplus Baldwin 4-6-0 was regauged to suit, hardily a heritage that warrants division over when 2'6" will offer choice and ease without being noticeably different.
The split at the Cambrian has surely cost years of progress and provides a valuable lesson.

 

The adoption of 2ft 6in gauge is perhaps the difference between reinstatement and weeds. Of course we are determined to keep some original features like chain brakes on the coaches, tallow to lubricate axleboxes, not using train staffs on the single line and a gravity inspection car for the General Manager ! What is there not to like ! Chirk - 'The Gateway to Wales' The Glyn Valley Tramway Trust www.facebook/glynvalleytramway

 

Well, I'm no businessman but that sounds like a good case to me. I certainly didn't intend my earlier post as any criticism of the GVT project, merely as a general point that the viability of any new heritage railway scheme must be carefully considered.

 

I can see it now .... licensed refreshment rooms at Chirk with an open fire probably burning more coal than the locos preparing tourists for their steam explorations deep into Wales or to calm down after the trauma !

 

The viability has been carefully considered courtesy of the European Agricultural Development Fund, Wrexham Borough Council and the Welsh Assembly and the Design and feasibility study says it will work. We're just the navvies ! The Glyn Valley Tramway Trust

 

Good luck to you. I'm old enough to remember the prophets of doom who said that Ffestiniog would not succeed because the Talyllyn already had any volunteer labour that was available. Did we take any notice of them? We did not.

Once again, the best of luck.

 

Little trains have been good to Wales but too many will IMO kill it. The GVT should have been restored many years ago and it would have been a different story. I also have reservations concerning the division between supporters involved in this idea. I think the Welshpool will be hit hardest but if all Wales can come up with is more little trains, tourism there is in trouble.

What will be next? Padarn to Dinorwic, Penrhyn all the way, Bryngwyn branch, The Kerry tramway, Plynlimon or the Andrews tram?

I am really sorry to be negative.

 

I think the sitation is not as bleak as that. An attraction at Chirk is not going to stop people going to Portmadoc or Towyn. And volunteers tend to be very local or comitted enough to travel a long way. You also have to remember volunteers differ - some like the building of a new line and transfer to any new 'groundbreakinmg' (literally) project, some like to work to the benefit of 'their' line and wont work on any other, etc. The economic ambitions of the various projects vary, as well. And Wales is more localised than most of England - Bethesda is, in the mind of the local population, a long way from Portmadoc or Caernarfon, however close it may look on the map - Chirk's a lot further still.

I do agree that projects should not endlessly proliferate. But I suspect the current economic climate will prevent any scheme that does not have a reasonable business case from getting off the ground, and in 20 years time the desire and drive to start new projects and carry them through to implementation will have died with the last of the generations that can remember 'unpreserved' narrow gauge.Thats just an opinion - although there are keen folk among the younger generation, the long term commitment to see through a 10 or 20 year project may not be there in what are going to be rapidly changing times.

 

The way I look at it is now I have 2 choices of rest stop to and from the Birmingham area, so soon it will be: Brum, GVT, Beddgelert and the return would be: Beddgelert, W&L, Brum.

Happy Days!

 

the Talyllyn in 1973 186,000 passenger journeys were made. now we have on a very good year 56,000 passengers (that includes Members who travel for free), in that time another 7 railways (without the GVT) I seem to remember have started running trains in wales (most in north wales) in or around 1973. the TR has never really done spotter events as there is no draw of visiting Locos etc etc and for general members of the public to look at going past narrow gauge railways like Brecon Mountain, WLLR, Bala etc the attraction has to be special like the Ffestiniog (set perfectly in Snowdonia)

the Talyllyn is a railway that you have to set out to get to as to be honest its stuck out in the arse end of nowhere. and although there are alot of caravans and static homes in Tywyn not many of them travel on the railway as they prefer to base themselves in Tywyn and go from the town each day and visit other things in the area.

although this would probably only work in North Wales I wonder sometimes if there is any Merit in groups going down a similar approach to the Standard Gauge railways whereby the group approach an existing Narrow gauge railway and inquire whether they could provide some siding space? or land on which they could set up a shed and their group could set up there and build their engines and Carriages and with agreements in place they could run trains in some cases with original stock plus they would have no need to build a railway.

as an enthusiast I cant wait to see a proper GVT train operating on the old GVT route, however as a member and volunteer of another popular railway I am getting worried as to just how thin the jam can be spread over the bread that is Narrow Gauge Railways in North Wales...

I am also sorry to be negative

regards

AT

N.B. my comments (despite my username) have nothing to do with the Talyllyn, but are my views. I have no idea on the companies view or other volunteers views

 

IMHO Talyllyn07 is spot on.
As someone who last volunteered at Tywyn in 1974, but has kept a close eye on developments ever since, I have to say that TR's "visitor experience" and overall quality has improved immeasurably - and yet the passenger figures have dropped like a stone.
I was also a W&L volunteer in the mid 60s, and that line has improved out of all recognition. Throw in the astounding recent events at Porthmadog, and you wonder what the future holds for the TR. There are others with the same predicament. Where does the WHHR go now? Can it survive with a short running line and small museum?
You can't begrudge anyone who wants to create their "own" little railway (just look at the number of small gauge "live steam" builds up and down the country), but when you have to rely on the general public to travel on "your" line, there is a limit to the overall market.
I find it slightly bemusing that there are those eager to "recreate" (however lacking in fidelity) yet another long lost line (no disrespect to the GVT guys), while at the same time the existing Welsh NG railways with some genuine substance are crying out for volunteers. Even the F&WHR struggle to get people to oil carriage axleboxes on a regular basis, despite the "draw" of arguably having the most exciting NG railway.
I too worry that the "jam is getting spread too thin". It would be a tragedy if we were to lose one of the older established lines. Even if this doesn't happen, it's not hard to see a situation where loco's are not overhauled or track allowed to deteriorate due to lack of revenue and volunteers.

My user name also doesn't represent any views of the TR company or society - just a lifelong supporter who doesn't want to see the TR (or any other line) go into decline.