Crewe Heritage Centre for Sale

You could perhaps add Didcot and Barrowhill to the mix? Trouble is I've never been to CHC so I'm a bit in the dark.

 

I remember visiting CHC about 5 years ago. To be strictly honest, and without wishing to do down the work by the volunteers there, I wasn't that impressed. It was very quiet and felt rather run down, and a lot of things were closed and inaccessible, it being a weekday. From what I have seen in the magazines and online since then it has improved a lot, and I do hope to be able to make another visit soon. I'll be honest though, it felt closer to Tyseley before its recent rejuvenation and abandonment of its museum credentials than to Didcot or Barrow Hill.

 

The sudden flurry of comments today have made some interesting points, but they all show a fundamental lack of understanding of the situation. The volunteers at Crewe cannot commit to long-term improvements while the present situation continues. Let me give you an example.

A couple of years ago much effort was put into staging a new exhibit in the Exhibition Hall based around a newly-restored LNWR TPO coach. But it is no longer there. Why? Because PW found he needed more space for his people to work when they took on the restoration of the Garratt for the Welsh Highland Railway so, without the knowledge of or consent from the Trustees, he cleared it all out and annexed that part of the Hall for his own use. He claims that Cheshire East Council gave him permission to do this, a claim that they vigorously deny. And that is not the only part of the site his business has encroached upon without permission.

When you have someone using part of the site who behaves in that manner, how can you expect it to improve?

Peter Jordan

Chairman, Exeter West Group

 

As it's nearly a month since there was any input on this subject, I thought folk might like an update.

Contrary to their originally-advised intention of a decision by December, Cheshire East Council have still not announced who the successful bidder is for the 125-year lease of the Crewe Heritage Centre site. Representatives from Crewe Heritage Trust were called to a meeting with CEC representatives last Wednesday, at which details of the bid by Crewe Heritage Trust were discussed. It is also known, after a Councillor tabled a question, that there have only been two bids for the lease. We don't know who the other bidder is, but can hazard a pretty safe guess.

One other interesting thing that happened last week was that the following appeared on Tuesday morning's 'BBC Breakfast.' If you missed it I urge you to watch:

Pete Waterman, Christian Wolmar and Jerry Marshall on BBC1 Breakfast - YouTube

When you have done so you will realise the problem that Crewe Heritage Trust are faced with in trying to negotiate with a person who behaves in such a manner when he does not get his own way. What you see is not untypical - I have first-hand experience of such scenes from my own time on the Board of Crewe Heritage Trust.

Peter Jordan

Chairman, Exeter West Group

 

The BBC Breakfast interview gives a very bad impression of those who are pro-HS2 and the heritage railway sector also won't look good if its protagonists (and our man is well known in the public eye for being one) behave in such an aggressive, strident and just downright rude (imho) manner. Whilst you have to "fight your corner" in a TV or any other media debate, there are better ways of doing it. I believe the interview (and I have been involved in media skills training) served only to strengthen the case against HS2 and to label those in favour of HS2 as little more than aggressive train spotters. That's not true but that is the impression it gave.

 

The HS2 protagonists have all been to "who can shout loudest" and "lets mock the alternative" school of debate.

As you rightly say, Peter - it contributes nothing to objective analysis of argument or outcome. I have been labelled obstructionist for seeing the improvement of the national network as more important than concentrating investment on one route - and as far as the Northern Hub goes - why spend £550 m when £50m would do? - Ask a consultant!

Back to the Heritage Centre - whilst your posts here keep us informed you have a mountain to climb when put up against people to whom six figure sum are pocket money, and the current establishment is wedded to listening to their point of view because money, as always, talks.

Just for the record - who do LNW derive their occupation from - C & N Council, or the Heritage Centre Trust?

 

In response to the last few postings, the fact that the 'BBC Breakfast' interview was about HS2 is of no relevance to the Crewe thread - what IS of relevance is it shows very graphically the kind of reaction you get when you don't give PW everything he wants. And why would anyone want to volunteer their time and money to attend meetings to be faced with a tirade like that?


In reply to TBirdFrank, LNWRHCo. come to be on the site because the Trust ran out of money in 1994. They accepted an offer from Pete Waterman (which was never fully honoured) to put money into the Centre if he could have use of the workshop building. The Trust should have known that this was a clear breach of their lease from Crewe & Nantwich Council (as then was) but they accepted the offer without having anything at all put into writing. Consequently Mr. Waterman moved onto the site and now does just as he pleases, because there is no document governing his occupancy that anyone can point to and say, 'You can't do that.'

Of course the present Trustees want to remedy that situation (and have tried) but they cannot, because Mr. Waterman will not negotiate or accept any restrictions on what he is allowed to do.

If anyone wishes to see copies of the various promises that were made in the past, email me privately at: peterjordan@dsl.pipex.com and I can forward them to you as attachments to an email.

Peter Jordan

Chairman, Exeter West Group

 

As an addition to what I have just posted, if anyone emails me to request the documents, can you please say whether you would like them as attachments in JPEG format or TIF format - I can supply either.

Peter Jordan

Chairman, Exeter West Group

 

Well, we are now into February with STILL no sign of Cheshire East Council making a decision on who (if anyone) is to get the 125-year lease of the Crewe Heritage Centre site. They certainly can't be accused of making a rushed decision!

Meanwhile planning goes on for the various events that will feature at the Centre as part of 'Crewe 175' this year, and last week the rental payment due from LNWRHCo. failed to arrive. So maybe Mr. Waterman will be getting another visit from those nice bailiffs, just like he did last summer.

Peter Jordan

Chairman, Exeter West Group

 

Interesting the overhaul of his loco 6634 at Bridgnorth appears to have halted.

 

By way of an update, the rent due from LNWRHCo. to Crewe Heritage Trust has now been paid, but with no explanation as to why the payment was delayed from its due date.

And still no news on the lease sale.

Peter Jordan

Chairman, Exeter West Group

 

Here is an interesting website I found a few days ago:

The Lord-Lieutenant of Cheshire

If you go onto it and look in the section 'Deputy Lieutenants U-Z' you will find Mr. Waterman. There it says that he is an ambassador for Community Service Volunteers and the Prince's Trust. Meanwhile his business on the Crewe site (with his full knowledge) continues to treat Crewe Heritage Trust and its volunteers with utter contempt.

Perhaps if any of you have links to, or know people who have links to, CSV or the Princes' Trust, you might like to draw this anomaly to their attention. 'Disgraceful hypocrisy' is one way of describing it.

Meanwhile, over two months from the date that a decision should have been announced, there is still no news from Cheshire East Council over the granting of the 125-year lease.

Peter Jordan

Chairman, Exeter West Group

 

Money talks, Peter, and it talks very loudly.

 

Here is an update regarding some new developments.

It has been discovered that, as far as Cheshire East Council are concerned, Mr. Waterman is the 'preferred bidder' for the 125-year lease of the Crewe Heritage Centre site. Yesterday there was a meeting between some of the councillors and Mr. Waterman to discuss what he might want to do with the site, and this meeting was attended by an observer from Crewe Heritage Trust.

Prior to this meeting the same councillors had met with representatives of Crewe Heritage Trust, who had urged them to be 'robust' in their dealings with Mr. W. Unfortunately it seems, when it came to the crunch, that this robustness was not applied.

Mr. Waterman apparently told the meeting that he wants the whole of the site to expand his business and develop his 'Rail Academy' idea. But the three signal boxes will be left alone - whatever that means.

But then, in a most bizzare twist to the saga, he apparently stated that, if he is successful in obtaining the 125-year lease, he intends to take action to try and get the remaining 30-year term of the lease that Crewe Heritage Trust still have forfeited, on the grounds that they were in breach of their lease when they allowed him to occupy part of the site!

It is difficult to imagine a more hypocritical, spiteful and vindictive attitude than this. If you wrote the recent history of Crewe Heritage Centre as part of a work of fiction you would say it is rather far-fetched. But it isn't - it is true and it is happening today in a country that is supposed to pride itself on its sense of 'fairness.'

If the railway heritage movement seriously want to see a proper heritage attraction maintained in Crewe then they need to stop just reading posts on this forum and get some positive action organised - especially if they live within the remit of Cheshire East Council.

Peter Jordan

Chairman, Exeter West Group

 

I love Exeter box. I grew up around Exeter, and now live just outside Crewe, Its a shame the situation that is going on, i can see both sides of the story. BUT for Crewe its self, shouldnt the council be trying to attract visitors? Not creating a closed workshop and loosing what could be a tourist attraction.

If it was up to me i would have sold the whole site to Tesco, and re located the whole lot to the Diesel depot. Which i believe is owned by the council and is empty? and would have a longer running line and is right next to the station its self

 

You say that you can see 'both sides of the story' Gav106, so perhaps you could explain to me what you see as being the validity of how Mr. Waterman has behaved?

Would you consider it acceptable for every British business to gain a foothold on a site on the basis of promises that are never delivered upon and then, once on that site, to appropriate other parts of it for their use without permission, withold rental payments and cause damage to property that is not their own?

I am sure there are lots of British businesses that would just love to operate without the restrictions imposed by formal lease arrangements but we don't expect them to behave in this way in an ordered and civilised society. In actual fact Mr. Waterman is competing unfairly with other similar businesses because he is operating without the restrictions that the other businesses are bound by.

No one is expecting him to do something exceptional -just what is right and fair.

Peter Jordan

Chairman, Exeter West Group

 

What i mean is i can see what Pete Waterman wants to do with the site. Close down the visitor attraction and expand the boilershop side.

Thats all, he will offer the council the promise of Jobs, rather than the promise of possible visitors which never materialise because there isnt much to do at Crewe Heritage centre. Maybe thats actually something that his boilershop creates, because it takes up the exhibition hall where you could create a decent exhibition.

Im for both operations actually and i understand that the space restrictions at Crewe HC probably means this will never work out. As you probably know the LMS Patriot project was given a lottery Grant to create an Exhibition at Crewe HC in the main hall, but because of the on going situation we havent been able to do this. But we also want LNWR to build our boiler.

Your probably right that what has happened is unfair, and ill never dispute that, but i can see why the council dont seem interested in the centre as an attraction as the moment, that isnt to say it couldnt be in the future though.

Gav

 

Is the Main Hall the one where the auctions take place?