New builds - how many will ever really work?

The problem with the 5AT was that it didnt look like what in most peoples minds a steam engine should look, if you want pure 21st century steam then you go for a modern leader type with a steam turbine powering electric powered bogies , with either pick up gear or overhead gear , hidden from sight of course , to independently power the bogies when needed as a back up to the steam plant

Where as if you want tradition ,you have to stick with a traditional outline but with modern ease of use fitments such as rocking grates, hoper ashpans, and roller bearing in the place of the white metal types and grease lubrication all round the labour side of things isnt a problem, unlike when steam was in regular dailly use so you dont need oil firing or such if your going traditional outline, where as if you want real modern steam, then you go for pulverised coal and computorised feed all from your driving seat , it would be steam, yes but with no heart

 

Mr 242A1, are you trying to tell me that the acceleration of locomotives is a function of their wheel size ? and that adhesion improves with more coupled wheels ? Youll be telling me that a 2-8-2 with 1.6m drivers is ideal next.... please, keep going. ;->...

 

It looked like a Standard Class Five with large tender and double chimney. It had all the modern gizmos you could want. What do you mean "no heart"? Learn before posting-no don't, I need some entertainment.

 

Who have remained remarkably silent.. Is that because there are already too many of these...?

 

And now for something completely different.

Is this the thread on which we are discussing Beachy Head? Anyway, a big new update has just been posted - see Bluebell Railway Atlantic Group - Latest progress

Lots of interesting castings and other goodies have arrived, including regulator valve, mudhole doors, axlebox crowns, blastpipe cap, the eccentric sheaves for the Stephenson's valve gear,reverser clutch, the scale for the reverser (still to be engraved I guess), the machined cylinder liners and more water-jet cut parts of the motion.

After further construction, the cylinder liners have now been placed into the cylinders, and the reverser is now fully operational using compressed air. (When in service, it will be steam operated). The steam ports to the cylinders also have some interesting seals made I believe from extruded copper - this replicates the original "Hulburd's patent continuous metallic seal". And for anyone wondering about money: apparently £115,000 was spent on the project last year, and the bits listed above won't have been cheap...

Now all we need to make this a proper new build project is a FaceBook page, a Hornby model and an argument amongst the project team leading half of them to walk off and start up Remembrance tank new build project. Once that happens, then we'll really be in business...

Tom

 

my coment was about a leader type engine, to me if you want modern steam traction, this would have been the way it would have gone, double ended, with a steam generator driving electric traction motors it would most likily have had mechanical firing using pulverised coal all controlled from the driving cab , it was in this context i said it would be steam, but have no soul , it would look like a deisel and probally sound like one , does that explain it? where as you could build a heritage design , that looks like the real thing, but under the skin has all the modern gismos that would make it more user friendly

 

New builds -how many of them will ever really work?

Well, in the case of this lovely "Atlantic", with all the hard work and dedication being given to it, I'm sure it will!
I liked the quip about the "Remembrance Tank," but maybe that's just my sense of humour.
Last night we had a presentation on BR Engine sheds and the speaker showed a beautiful colour slide of the original "Beachy Head" in BR lined black, I think at Eastleigh. It looked almost immaculate. He informed us that, shortly after the photo was taken, "Beachy Head" was cut up despite some effforts to save it, not least by the then nascent Bluebell Rly. At least that error is now being rectified.

 

I agree, the group were lucky enough to start with an ex gn atlantic boiler and have the backing of a major player in the Bluebell.
New builds where they have the facilities on hand and more important the ability to finance the casting and manufactor of the parts needed to build their engine are already one step ahead of those who are still dreaming , if i am honest several of these schemes will fall by the way side, but those such as the standard 3 tank and Beachy Head will most likily get there , i discount the GW new builds in this because they are building using exsisting donor locos for major parts and so will stand the best chance of all of because they already will have quite a few parts availible

 

I agree with your comments, Martin. Can we include the G5 project in the 'will most likely get there' group? I believe it will.

 

It is not that simple, like just about anything else with the steam locomotive.

 

Surefire bet - hasn't it already got the major expense, the boiler?

 

Yup: buildprogress They did the boiler before the frames, wheels etc I believe, an unusual way round but perhaps one worthy of consideration by other newbuild projects looking to build 'street-cred'? If you can raise the money for a boiler you've basically proved you can manage the rest.

 

Thanks for the link Jamie

I had googled it but didn't find it. Must be my search terms. I agree with that, building the boiler first is unusual given the projects we have around, but by having the boiler you could say the locomotive suddenly looks more doable. It's this which has helped the Atlantic project and the GWR conversions, having a boiler around which to build the rest. Tornado did it the other way but then the whole model of fundraising and building was for the most part different to those on the go now.

I think we're living in a fascinating period of resurrecting history whilst preserving it. Wouldn't miss seeing any of these steam for the world.

 

Thanks for the replies, guys. I wasn't sure where it stood, and like Simon, my Gurgling didn't come up with that link

Of course, Tornado was the pathfinder for this new-build scenario; however, there's a huge difference between a G5's boiler & an A1's boiler when it comes to initial outlay. I wonder if Tornado would have actually 'happened', had the 'boiler first' route been taken? The Patriot group have gone the same way as Tornado - chassis first.

An interesting point, isn't it?

 

Seems quite a while (18th Jan 2011) since the G5 website was updated. Are things still ok?

 

YUP add the G5 to the list, i didnt know how far advanced they were, looks like they are well on the way im not sure if doing the boiler first is the way to go, but it makes sence in this case ,because its a tank engine will they will need to fit the boiler when assembling the tanks and cab to ensure everything fits correctly ? then have to remove everything when the boiler gets steam tested , that way they can assemble the engine get everything fitting correctly set up the valve movements before finishing off the boiler , that way things go back on easier once the boiler ticket starts to tick away