New builds - how many will ever really work?

doubts about the Hengist and P2 projects???
regards
noel

 

Which P2 project are you referring to?

The A1 Trust one will, I suspect, stand or fall simply on whether it would be permitted to operate on the 'big railway'. I don't know enough about the other P2 group to really comment.

Hengist? Well, whilst I wish them well, it's my understanding that main line use isn't being considered. That may well have an impact on her progress; a Clan, to me, should be doing what it was designed to do - out on the main line.

 

The P2 project thats being run by the A1 guys will stand the most chance, because they have done it all before and know how to keep the project going, Hengist, well if i am honest i am sceptical about their chances, until they get a base and can start to show progress after all people tend to support projects that they think will actually end up with something in steam at the end as oppossed to a set of small parts and a website that promisses but does not deliver

 

Hengist is making steps forward in leaps and bounds. Building / restoring a loco has three stages:

First stage, get all the bits together. Joe public rarely sees this part and all the planning and ordering of parts
Second stage, assembly, everyone sees this part and says 'ooh new shiny bits!'
Third stage, final fit out, TPWS, OTMR etc etc. This stage always looks like a project has slowed down and stalled.

Markin, where did you hear that Hengist isn't going mainline? Whilst it's not my place to make a public statement about the plans for the loco I will say that mainline use has most definitely NOT been ruled out and all work currently being carried out is to mainline standards.

 

I'm pretty sure that it was mentioned on this august Forum, no less. Admittedly before the shakeup at the top that you guys had...

I do sincerely wish you well - the idea of a big beastie like a Clan being confined to heritage railway operation, particularly as a newbuild, strikes me as terribly wasteful.

Mark

 

Thanks Mark. I agree, a Clan fully open on a picturesque highland route would certainly be very fitting to the class.
Dave

 

They seem to have made a policy decision to make website updates a very low priority. There is clearly still progress being made however, for instance this video post-dates the last website update http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=XV4q6PbNBuw. Though it also says they're still looking to raise funds, which makes the communications approach a bit puzzling to me - but if it's completed in the next year or so it will have been vindicated!

 

I am reluctant to discuss Hengist on this thread since we have a 'dedicated' thread already.
If you want to try and keep up to date with the public business of this new build please refer to that thread.
What I will state for your benefit is that we have 90% of the cab ready to fit to a boiler and frames, we have the smokebox barrel, door and other parts ready almost to fit to the frames and boiler, we have the frame plates and the majority of the stretchers. What we are missing are the 3 cast steel stretchers to allow us to erect the frames. They are expensive, at least 148 other engines had them; of which 3 9F's and 71000 survive. We hope to let the contract before too long to an engineering company to do that erection work.
If you can be patient another 1-2 years, yes, it takes that long, you should see real progress with this project.

Sorry for waylaying this thread for that information.
I'll put it on our main thread as well for more general information.

Final comment, if you want to see 'Hengist' run, in any guise, feel free to donate via our website.
Cheers all.

 

But obviously not in the opinion of people with money to donate

 

Your statement that 71000 is the only other Standard loco with cast steel combined frame stretchers and spring brackets is incorrect. 147 of the Crewe built 9Fs were built using cast stretchers combined with spring brackets. Indeed, some of the castings were more of an inverted T shape. Surviving locos fitted with this type of stretchers are 92134, 92240 and 92245.

 

Thinking about new builds in general, I think the advantages of being closely associated with a major heritage centre can't be underestimated (e.g. Beachy Head at the Bluebell; 82045 at the SVR; the various GWS projects; the Patriot at LLangollen etc).

1) It gives you access to workshop space, and even just the ephemera of a big workshop. So you have ready access to machine tools as well as cranes, fork lifts and other things for moving bits and pieces around. If you are out on your own somewhere, you either have to contract out more work (at greater expense), or else spend money acquiring tools. Similarly, simply moving components when needed suddenly becomes more of a challenge, eating into valuable time. Being on a small site on your own doesn't make such a project impossible, but it makes it more protracted, and more expensive.

2) It gives you access to ready made systems for collecting money. For example, Beachy Head has its own segmented account within the Bluebell railway Trust. This enables the project to receive donations and collect Gift Aid (with appropriate records kept for tax purposes) at essentially zero admin effort to the project - the admin is all done by the trust, and shared between multiple projects. Again, it wouldn't be impossible to do that on your own, but you'd spend a lot of time setting up a trust, bank accounts etc and have to keep paperwork with everyone's GA declaration.

3) Most importantly, it gives you a ready catchment of interested potential donors in which to talk about the project. For example, the Bluebell has 10,000 members. So a simple flyer put in with the Bluebell News mailing, or an article in the magazine, keeps the project in the mind's eye of 10,000 people who at the least are enthusiasts. Whereas a project on its own has to find a way to build up and sustain a supporter base from scratch. Again, not impossible - Tornado managed it - but much harder.

None of which is to suggest that a standalone project can't succeed - Tornado showed it was possible, and I suspect in size and scale, that is about as big and complicated as any new build project will get. But undoubtedly, if a project can be associated with a major heritage centre, a lot of things become much easier, quicker and ultimately cheaper.

Tom

 

I am indepted to your alertness, entirely my error. I make no excuses.

 

I'm with you Confucius.

 

In theory if the new build groups set up right they should all get their locos built but still it all depends on funding