Flying Scotsman

Given its prominence in the marketing and the undoubted goodwill and support that has come the NRM's way since purchase, it will always be the correct and best decision for locomotive and the museum to have come together. And I do not regret a single penny I have sent their way. It should have been the first name on the original preserved engines list. No ifs, no ands, and no buts.

^and it is this which reminds me how lucky we are that it is in, effectively, public hands where (if it were necessary) people would be held to account much more easily than if it were in privately owned hands. That said, I think it is in - and maintain that it IS - in the best hands it could be possibly be.

 

One of the facts people have over looked is in the last 25 years Scotsman as only worked in the UK for 6 years ,it was either out of the country or a non runner /under overhaul.

 

That seems an unlikely statistic. Can you break it down for us, please? It also seems a bit unfair to not count its work abroad too. It was still working, in both the USA and Australia for a good few years.

 

Well if they use this "footplate crew" (from one of my shots from 2010's DCE) 46115 might just be glamourous enough to attract more media attention!

 

What green five said!

 

Went to Australia in 1988 returned to Uk 1995 sold in 1996 overhauled, 1999 to 2005 was out on the mainline. Before 1988 was overhauled for it's visit to Australia .When it was running in the UK it worked mainly on the VSOE. Enthusiasts are fickle after the first 12 months there attention will be on another engine.

 

I was wrong then I thought 60163 would be the stand by engine. Still could get some good publicity for 46115 and WCRC.

 

Interesting to note, from the Railfest thread in the national R$railway Museum area on this forum that while it was not considered appropriate for Scotsman to attend Barrow Hill in case it delayed finishing it in time for the Olympic Torch train in July it will be attending Railfest in June (although not in steam) what unfair treatment, despite the promises to Barrow Hill and them moving the date from 2011 to 2012 their event is not deemed important enough yet Railfest is. If the loco was not to attend railfest could it have been finished in time for the Olympic Train.

There seem to be some very dubious morals at work at the NRM.

BTW I do not object to the idea of spending what is necessary to finish 4472, what I object to is paying twice because the original engineering assessment was not fit for purpose.

Steve Davies should fall on his sword, as per his alleged joke.

 

Er...no...
Returned to UK 1989, ran on main line until 1992, then on preserved lines (latterly in BR green as 60163) until 1995.

 

LNER Class A3 4472 Flying Scotsman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ?.

 

The wikipedia link does not say 4472 was in Australia 1988-1995. It says "In October 1988 the locomotive arrived in Australia ....." but gives no date for the return. Only that "Returned to the UK, by 1995 it was in pieces at Southall". This is not a wikipedia error, just an absence of detail.

 

Interesting. Thanks for the breakdown. I note above it's been challenged in terms of exact years, but for one year it's a moot point.

Oakfield, who would you have in place of Steve Davies...?

I know exactly where I'd be aiming my condemnation and it's not at the NRM engineering team, Ian Riley or anyone involved in this particular overhaul. But then I'd have to put the broken record on all over again, let's not start that...!

RE Railfest - I can understand why they would want 4472 to attend. It's the museum's flagship now. Railfest promises to be a massive event with many people from all over the world attending. I am in no way putting down Barrow Hill - I personally feel it's the top event in the calender year, year on year. It is definitely disappointing for all concerned regarding 4472's movements this year. The Museum needs/wants its flagship engine to be present for its biggest event in years - logical, no?

I would hope that 4472 is made available to Barrow Hill thereafter. It is not as if there is not a worthy replacement in its place (Mallard) this year, which the NRM are also providing.

 

Someone who can honour his promises, not make flippant statements then back down from them and someone who is not determined to turn the museum into a kids playground!

In no way do I blame Ian Riley, it is all down to the bunch of incompetents at the NRM.

 

I can see why Tornado might be mentioned, but I would put Britannia or Princess Elizabeth in front. Shame no main line Rocket replica.

One thing that I find a little uncomfortable is that 46115 is owned by a private individual and the plaudits will go to a company rather than a charitable organisation. That might apply to Britannia of course, or is it in a charity? I thought it was owned by Jeremy Hoskings. The NYMR leg isn't affected in the same way as its a charity neither is 6201.

Surely any private company getting this level of coverage has to pay a sponsorship fee like other Olympic support organisations? Perhaps that's why this choice has been made, which is fair enough, its just a form of advertising which is quite proper. Excellent advertising though in the north with the Scarborough Spa Express starting a few weeks later....

Well I'm sure this has all been thought through properly as NRM is part of NMSI which is part of the Department of Media, Culture and Sport which is in charge of the Olympics. Maybe the revenue is going to help pay for the additional works on 4472 which would be good I think.

 

Eh? The difference between 1988-1989 or 1988-1995 is a bit more than that. Keith said the loco had only worked in the UK for 6 out of the last 25 years - I think he needs to check his dates, from better sources than wikipedia, and re-calculate!

 

Sorry Miff - my selective Dyscalculeia acting up again! You're quite right, much bigger difference. My apologies.

You must have been the only person to think he was legitimately serious when he made that statement. It was an ill advised statement, on reflection, but I took it as a show of his dedication to the overhaul. As for the museum jibe - museums and their exhibits have to be kept fresh to keep people coming back. It's a fact of life. I wholeheartedly support anything which gets the kids into railway preservation - we're struggling as it is to keep people of all ages coming back to railways.

I don't think anyone blames Ian Riley, and perhaps some people (who have already left the NRM as a result of the overhaul) may have some accountability. I still ask the question: where did Marchington's money go?

It is a pity, as has been said on another thread by a very wise person, that enough people don't stand up at the time and make it known that some unpalatable things are happening, when they are happening.

Changing tack - here's hoping for a swift and equally thorough completion to the overhaul for 4472 to be back pounding the rails again.

 

Thank you Mr Hammond.

 

The internet is a wonderful thing but obviously not always right , I have the video of the trip to Australia yes video not dvd fast changing world must stick with books!.

 

To help with the history books..

Preserved Steam Locomotives Down Under - 4472 Flying Scotsman

Don't forget when it return, it worked out the remainder of it's mainline ticket as 60103 and latterly on a tour of preserved railways (i recall it left the East Lancs for Llangollen and was declared a failure at which point it was withdrawn from service).

it would seem Scotsman is somewhat like tutankhamun's curse when it comes to money and reliability... everyone who touches it becomes poorer and gets burned... lets hope enough money and enough skill will finally put an end to it... (anyone remember the overhaul of the Super D ?.. no one's complaining about how bad it is now).

 

Good grief! There are some bitter and twisted people:-
NRM should have known blah blah blah
Steve Davies should blah blah blah
46115 isn't good enough blah blah blah
WCRC are horrid because they won't play with Yawnado blah blah blah


Tell you what - regarding the offer of 46115 by WCRC. They have done charitable work FOC before you know....