L1 new build

I think that's the main issue here. A newbuild project is always going to be in a quandary in its earliest days - gauging opinion whilst keeping its mouth shut - quite a dilemma.

I think the problem with the L1 and J39 projects is that they have arrived on the scene with over-confidence. If a thread had started up saying L1 Newbuild...? 'This thread is to gauge opinion...' then I think it may not have been so denigrated.

 

I agree with that, there are times when you need to speak out to gauge reaction from your thoughts and ideas
How else are you supposed to research the market to see if its viable ?
But it needs to be well orchestrated combined with a large degree of knowing what you are on about
When regarding both the L1 andj39 this is sadly not the case,and i cant help feeling that they have blown it

 

Think we will just have to wait and see what happens with both L1 group and J39 group you all need to give us a chance before rushing ahead and saying " oh this group will never work etc ".

 

A closed mouth gathers no feet.....

 

true there

 

And so in the same manner your groups need to learn to listen and think before rushing ahead saying you are going to do X, Y and Z without any real thought as to how. The J39 and their copper boiler was one obvious example of this, it showed a severe lack of understanding & planning.

The L1 not been that much better, as your fbook page originally asked which L1 should you build Maunsell or Thompson. Surely when you are trying to sell a product though you should have a clear of what it is? It just appears to be a group of people who want the PR of building a new loco, than actual engineers looking for their next challenge.

I'd be happy to be proved wrong 15-20yrs down the line, but in terms of this and the J39 I just can't see it sadly for all the reasons of the last 25 pages.

 

as the saying goes learn to walk before you run and we will be listening and thinking before rushing ahead and we will learn from any mistakes we make .

 

Its been a few weeks now. Must be time for another group split and announcement of a completely different project. How about the Paget sleeve valve loco?

 

Nah, if you want a sleeve valve loco Leader is the natural choice. Or if you're feeling brave, fit the new build Beachy Head with sleeve valves and a stove pipe chimney!

 

Yeah there is a connection there as Keith & co have fabricated the cylinders for Beachy Head and Hartland Point's sleeve valve cylinders were also fabricated. Now then, who is going to ask the question...

 

What's a sleeve valve?
Well, I know what a sleeve valve is on a Bristol Centaurus piston aero-engine as fitted to that most elegant and fastest of all Hawker's piston creations: the Sea Fury (the US engined 4 bladed prop furies don't sound quite the same but are less hassle engineering wise) but I fear I'm going to have to look on the Net for steam loco sleeve valves (although I guess the principle is similar).

 

Cecil Paget and then OVB looked at sleeve valves 40 odd years apart as a principle of raising the efficiency of cylinders. The theory was based on the aeronautical engines of the time that used them successfully. I believe the savings in efficiency were principally created by cutting the heat loss through the cylinder. (I AM NOT AN ENGINEER SO DO NOT SHOOT ME DOWN!!) Kevin Robertson's fantastic books on the Leader class can give you chapter and verse on how and why they were supposed to be the way forward.

However...

In an internal combustion engine (particularly aeronautical) the engine works at a constant RPM but in a steam engine they don't and were also subject to the rough and tumble of the track & vibration etc and as a result they didn't work. principally they kept seizing through poor lubrication, the lugs sheared off and the numerous piston rings kept breaking. The consequent loss of steam meant any savings through efficiency were lost plus a whole load more!

Cecil Paget tried it first and it failed on the Midland. OVB came along and thought he could make it work. He didn't either!

Read kevin's book. It really provides a fantastic analysis of the subject.

 

Many thanks MM!

 

Both staggeringly ugly at the side of a Spit or Hurricane IMHO.

 

well im not going to leave this group and the others could go of there own free will if wanted so i dont see us splitting up anytime this year.

 

Until you and your group learn to present yourselves in a professional and articulate manner I don't see your group going anywhere.

BTW how are you going to address the structural weaknesses in the original design without affecting the locomotives 'Grandfather rights'?

 

we are going to only run the locomotive on preserved lines and if needed we will redeign the axle boxes

 

And the frames, and the tanks? I think you are going to get a shock when you try to insure the finished article. Do yourselves a favour, get professional fronting for your organization or forget the whole thing!