Crewe Heritage Centre for Sale

Problem is , Chris, things are not that simple.

First of all, Cheshire East Council were not happy about the informal sub-let. But, as was pointed out in the BBC Radio Stoke interview, that could have been regularised by them simply issuing a letter of consent varying the original lease to Crewe Heritage Trust. Why introduce a lease that is going to produce no value for 125 years?

Secondly, the granting of the 125-year lease will not necessarily allow Mr. Waterman's business to expand - it does not even grant it security in the longer term. This is because for the next 29 years Crewe Heritage Trust will be able to exercise their full rights under the existing lease. That is a matter of law, pure and simple.

Peter Jordan

Chairman, Exeter West Group

 

Its never that simple. Until the Heritage Centre is as important to the area as a growing business employing and training local people in valuable engineering skills LNWR will always come out the winner in the battle of public perception, which you clearly dont think is irrelevant given this thread and all the publicity being courted.

So long as the emphasis remains on conducting a PR campaign against Mr Waterman and LNWR, telling everyone of past injustices, laughable suggestions of conspiracy and corruption, and how unfair it is that a successful business with a bright future is being given priority over an attraction which is neither, i cant see that changing.

Telling everyone about progress, or even plans, to make the Centre a high quality visitor attraction would at least gain people's sympathy, but at the moment it looks like little more than another case of railway politics being carried out in public - if that's ever been beneficial, please let me know!

Chris

 

How much of the last 14 pages have you read and digested? It does not appear this way to me.

 

Any suggestions on improving CHC as a visitor attraction...
from the sounds of it they have another 29 years to make a go of it.

I for one haven't been there since the DB 01 pacific and SNCF 231k class were there, circa 1990.
stuffing and mounting 6201 in there, as been suggested, won't encourage me to go again.

It needs a USP, doesn't sound like the council will provide it, LNWR could... If the bridge isn't too burnt to cross.

Failing that, as mentioned before Exeter west would look great at Stoke by the wcml on the MCR.

 

Perhaps this thread should be locked as an act of kindness to Mr Jordan?

 

Once again, my apologies if this posting goes over some old ground again.

I'm sorry, Sidmouth, but what you say is unfair, untrue and impractical. You say that the Heritage Centre is unappealing because it has been '.......... allowed by the current stewards to become that way.' That is simply not the case.

Most of the current members of the Council of Management of Crewe Heritage Centre have only been in their posts a few years, and they have already demonstrated that they are prepared to take a much more robust approach to problems with LNWRHCo. than the previous incumbents. Over the years there had been many occasions when LNWR had not paid their rent or other bills on the due date, and such situations had just been allowed to ride in the hope that payment would be forthcoming. It generally was, but often extremely overdue.

Last summer a rental payment was witheld and the Council of Management sent in the bailiffs, which I think came as something of a shock to LNWRHCo. The Council of Management have also made it clear that robust action will be taken against any further attempts at unauthorised trespass by LNWRHCo. although the matter of the trespass that has already taken place remains to be addressed.

The present Council of Management appear to have good relations with many local businesses such as Bentley, and also many of the private rail operators such as Direct Rail Services. Given a proper opportunity it seems that the Council of Management could work alongside partners such as these to enhance the Centre considerably.

But, just as you did Sidmouth, Cheshire East Council seem reluctant to acknowledge that the problems at the Centre were caused by previous incumbents on the Council of Management, not the present ones. As I said in a recent email to the newly-elected Leader of Cheshire East Council, they seem determined that the sins of the fathers shall be visited on the sons. That is simply unfair.

With regard to relocating the heritage aspects, that is completely impractical. Crewe North Junction signal box belongs to Network Rail and forms no part of the present situation. With regard to Crewe Station 'A' and Exeter West, who is going to pay the many thousands of pounds that would be needed to take them down, move them, rebuild them and restore them to working order again?

And in response to another poster, I am not aware that anyone suggested that 6201 should be 'stuffed and mounted' at Crewe. The suggestion was that it should make Crewe its home base and be maintaiined and operated from there. However, it seems that opportunity has now been lost.

Peter Jordan

Chairman, Exeter West Group

 

He could just pick any one of 14 and save himself the time. We all got Mr Jordan's msg a long time ago. Constant repetition hasn't done it any favours.

 

Indeed. What would be truly refershing would be to see a response from LNWR Heritage Co to some of the accusations levelled against them.

 

I can't see that happening any time soon. What ever you might think about Mr W I imagine he has enough commercial nouse not to lay himself open to getting embrioled in a slanging match on a what's basically a train spotters site.

 

While I wouldn't expect a direct response from LNWR on this site, they cannot be unaware of the media campaign being waged against them and an official response from the company would make interesting reading.

 

True. Maybe they are so confident of their position they don't feel the need?

 

Certainly a possibility.

 

It is, of course, equally likely that we don't hear from LNWRHCo. because they would be trying to defend the indefensible.

If it helps people make up their minds about the rights and wrongs in this case, I am quite happy to make public the details of the tri-partite written agreement drawn up in 1991 between the Exeter West Group, Crewe Heritage Trust and Crewe & Nantwich Council. We can then ask LNWRHCo. to publish the details of their written agreement over occupation of the Heritage Centre site - but, of course, they won't be able to that, because they don't have one.

Peter Jordan

Chairman, Exeter West Group

 

Crewe Heritage Centre seems to me to still have lots of potential if only the two sides could reach agreement. I visited last autumn, and was disappointed that there was no viewing gallery from which you could see over the LNWR workshops which occupy one half of the exhibition hall. I have to say that the CHC side of the exhibition hall was a bit disappointing, with no large exhibits and quite tired displays. The rest of the site was tidy though, with relatively good interpretation boards. The volunteers seemed very enthusiastic and lots of them were quite young, which was heartening. A uniform policy could make the place look a lot more professional, even if it was just sweatshirts and fleeces - at times the site felt like a museum of high-viz jackets from defunct infrastructure companies!

It was a slightly disheartening trudge to get there from Crewe Station. I don't know how feasible it would be to rebuild the old pedestrian bridge (perhaps in a modern lightweight form) from the North end of Crewe station into the centre, but it seemed to me that such a project could potentially be the salvation of the place. It would make the centre much more accessible, and could potentially provide additional income by offering a some facilities such as a good quality buffet (or bar?) for station users. Lots of people still change trains at Crewe, and the CHC could be an excellent little diversion for them.

 

Kingscross makes some very good points. Back in the 1990's when I was a member of the Council of Mangement I said that the work area should be made visible to visitors so that it became part of the whole experience but, as with most of the things I said, nobody took any notice.

With regard to the Exhibition Hall, I really do not know what the long-term policy is for this. During 2012 it is going to house an exhibition related to Crewe 175, but what happens after that isn't clear. It does see successful use twice a year as the venue for a large railwayana auction, but the space required to stage such events presumably precludes using too much of the space for permanent exhibits.

I also pointed out a long time ago that there is a long strip of derelict land beyond the Chester line, and running back towards the station, that could have been taken on lease to give the Centre a more extensive area. Crossing the Chester line to access the present area of the Centre shouldn't be too difficult, as a path could be made from the additional land down to just by the bridge where the Chester line crosses Mill Street. Here the line is carried on some arches (behind the big advertising hoarding) and it seems to me it wouldn't be too difficult to make a subway here to come up at the far end of the present site by Vernon Way. Taking on the strip of land across the Chester line would also give the potential to have a much longer running line, extending back virtually to Crewe station.

Yes, the potential is still there - it just needs Crewe Heritage Trust to be given the opportunity to put forward a new vision and be given the facility to bring it to fruition.

Peter Jordan

Chairman, Exeter West Group

 

Hard Luck Peter - I detect a Modfest incoming! Like I have written before - as long as they get their steam trains, what is right, legal and proper goes into second place

 

What's a 'Modfest' Frank? I assume it involves scooters, parkas and industrial quantities of Strongbow?

 

Ill tell you what is supposed to be in the exhibition hall. A mock cab of a patriot and a mock smokebox with blinkers further away, with notice boards in the middle all about the patriot project. A tv with promotional dvd and 2000 packs on the patriot project with a dvd and book to be handed out to interested people for free. All paid for by a grant that was accepted well over a year ago. BUT due to all the goings on this is all on hold and we wasted all our time and effort trying to sort the whole thing out.
Shame it would have given the hall something new.

Gavin