Engines Being Scrapped?

Ten wheeler, these ex fin locos are 5ft gauge, and not easiely converted, and anyway are outside uk loading gauge, im sorry but its the right decision , if they had been standard gauge, then thats different , but they are not, i have to question the sanity of the idiot that imported them in the first place they can not run in the uk end of , unless you build your own 5ft gauge line but who has a ready supply of 5ft stock,

Now getting back to the polish tk locos, would i be right in thinking that these might be the spa valley duo? if so has the owner thought about swopping these for a uk engine , we have several Austerities at KESR littering the place up would a tk manage 5 up tenerden bank? , only a thought

 

Well I'm very surprised. The only full sized 2-8-2 in the country, and someone would flippantly scrap it just like that. Crazy.

I know people who have made great personal sacrifices over the years to save engines, and here we have someone who seemingly would do it without a second thought. Without those people there wouldn't be the rich resources of locomotives we have now.

I thought this forum was called National Preservation, and yet we seem to have people on here actually advocating the destruction of a perfectly good exhibit, with gusto. Whoever took on the site also took on some responsibility for the artifacts there. All too often we see people take over places and bulldoze out of the way anything that doesn't suit them, like the ones who spend their time getting historic buildings de-listed. They've made a lot of money out of redevelopment, and now they say they find themselves short of space - what a surprise. I suppose there's an element of it being foreign, but so what. And you only have to be concerned about the gauge if you want to run it. Once it's gone it's gone. I don't often feel too strongly about things like that, but I think you're all nuts. It's despicable actually. And I feel that all you people who support that kind of approach are as well.

 

Other than the fact that they are already in the country I can't see the point of all the hand wringing about the Finnish locos - the Polish ones at least have immediate usefullness. To make anything out of the Finnish locos is , as Martin says, a moneypit. What saddens me is the number of real 'gems' elsewhere in the world, with real British links, that have already been scrapped or left to rot. I'm thinking of India, Pakistan and Nepal [narrow gauge]. Some South African examples have been saved , the WHR Garretts for example and I believe one of the Cape gauge NB tanks. There may be others laying hidden [nobody mention LBR and South America!]

 

Are there any Finnish preservation groups out there prepared to repatriate these locos? That would seem to make the most sense. The WLLR sent their Finnish loco (Orion) back a few years back.

 

Hmmm me thinks Mr Tenwheely should get his credit card out and buy the Finnish monstrosity and have it delivered into his back garden. That way EOR are happy as they have their space back and get rid of an eyesore, he can look at his 140 tonnes of useless scrap and be happy that it will stand there evermore and best of all nobody is accused of vandalism!

Simples...

 

And whilst hes at it can he buy those two tk,s and drop them off at rolvendon? we always seem to have a shortage of engines capable of handling 5 mk1 ones on a 1 in 50 . with the price of scrap, then cutting the 2-8-2 will make more money foe EOR, its a pity its not 5ft 3ins, then it could have been offered to ireland , the problem is that no where in this country has any track thats 5Ft, so whats the point of restoring any of these engines if its not going to run more than a few yards , you cant even lay dual gauge as its to close together , im waiting for someone to start a facebook campain to relay a branch in 5 ft gauge and to fit these as gass producers etc

 

I wouldn't like to see the Finnish engines scrapped - I wouldn't like to see any locomotive scrapped - but unfortunately pragmatism must win out. And that isn't a mentality that goes against the ethos of the heritage railway movement either - look what happened at the Ffestiniog in its earliest years. Pragmatism won out with some of their charges, and look where they are today.

Scrapping however should be the absolute last resort, and repatriation to Finland seems the obvious answer before that should even be considered. If you sent a Black 5 out there, and because it was out of gauge there was a real chance of it being scrapped, there'd be uproar on here and rightly so. So I think we shouldn't just write these off for scrap because they have no personal immediacy to us, because there may well be enthusiasts in Finland who'd take them. But I can really see where the EOR is coming from in wanting rid of these (to them) useless space-wasters.

 

They'd make very interesting static exhibits - they just need a location with sufficient space for them. Bressingham perhaps? They've got rid of a lot of exhibits over the years so they must have somewhere to put it...somebody else would have to pay for it though.

 

There's already a Finnish 2-8-0 at Bressingham...

 

The availability of the locomotive was made aware to the International Railway Pres Society several months ago. I am aware that one of the Finnish websites has carried this (and have seen hits to our website from there). So far no interest or offers have been made by the Finnish. I would welcome any assistance to remind them of its availability and encourage serious interest.

We have also made the Irish railway community aware, and while one expressed an interest, no offers have been made.

Tenwheeler - the land formally the goods yard at Ongar was sold by the previous owners, before the branch was saved for preservation. We have to make our decisions based on what we have now, not wishing after what might have been.

Given your strong feelings and passion to see the engine preserved, I look forward to receiving a sensible offer (based on its asset/scrap value) from you to purchase the locomotive. I am happy to accept this via the open forum or email, as soon as the offer has been accepted and funds cleared, you can collect this item. We have heard of a possible site (south of London) that would possibly house it, you would only need to transport it there and keep it in presentable order. Two haulers have assessed the locomotive for transport, and either would be able to undertake this promptly, therefore satisfying both the requirements of EOR and your wishes.

I look forward to receiving your offer.
Simon, GM, EOR

 

I can imagine which 'group' that was - let's just say that Enid Blyton should be a life member of the group and it's no surprise that you didn't receive an offer, since the group has no finance and their plans change as often as the weather.

I agree with Simon-EOR and others - the loco has been offered for quite some time with no-one coming forward. If the loco was such an important artefact (either static or running) then someone would have bought it or made an offer by now, the fact that this has not happened surely indicates that the loco is not significant in UK circles at least, and the lack of interest from it's home country also indicates a lack of significance to Finnish railway history too (or perhaps they already have a representative loco).


Keith

 

All recent posts have been about the Finnish loco(s) is no one out there interested in the pair of Polish TKh locos on offer via what is almost a buy one, get one free, they too will end up as scrap, if not purchased, & one of them could become operable again at a small cost, & could prove useful on a Railway which could accomodate it/

ANYONE FROM THE NENE VALLEY INTERESTED?/

Please PM

 

It seems the Finnish 2-8-2 is one of 20 still in existence - the remaining 19 appear to be in Finnish museums or storage. I'm not really surprised that no one is interested in repatriating this one.

 

The same needs doing with the 6018 thread as well, already been mentioned on the thread. It's turning to a bitter argument between 2/3 people.

 

I guess the fact that the Finnish locos had been in a strategic reserve [am I allowed to say that?] meant that they were in better condition than some ex-Barry wrecks but being of the wrong gauge more than outweighs that. Finland and Russia both kept a large stock of such locos until the political and energy source world changed. Some other countries also had such reserves and it's thanks to this that gave us the WD on the KWVR and the Swedish locos that were/are on the Nene Valley. I don't think foreign steam locos have anything but a minority appeal [I am in that minority just in case someone is going to attack me]. The Polish locos make more sense as they have practical value to a 'small loco' line or one just starting out.

Rather than shell out a considerable sum on a loco that will just rust and need regular repainting as a static exhibit, wouldn't it make sense to put the money into the WD 2-10-0 in Greece[at present they would probably grab your hand off] or the 8F in Turkey or even one of the classic British 2-6-0s that were working in Paraguay[?] until recently?

 

If I am speaking out of turn, I apologise in advance.

However, let's ask the question.

If you just want the engines out of the way, why not put the locomotive up for sale for £1 - hear me out - on the basis that the cost of collection and removal is covered by the purchaser, and guaranteed after the sale.

I am sure this locomotive would make a fantastic "gate guardian" somewhere - so why not advertise it as such? There are several industrial locomotives which have become plinthed in various locations - why not this locomotive?

It is very sad to see what is an essentially complete locomotive cut up for scrap, whatever its origin. It has survived in this country for some time, perhaps longer than it was in service in Finland, so finding it a home - not necessarily a railway - must be preferable to cutting it up.

It is a sad situation, clearly, for both railway, owner and the community, but both sides clearly have a point insomuch that the locomotive occupies precious space, much needed, and is also an artifact of railway history. There's no easy answer and no doubt an uncomfortable decision may need to be taken.

 

But it isn't an artefact of railway history that is relevant to the UK or one that interests many people other than the dolly daydreamers who think everything should be saved. Cut it up - its irrelevant, ugly and covered in moss.

Sell it for a £1? Dream on. If I had 30k odd worth of scrap it would be weighed in and my mortgage similarly reduced.

Gate guardian - these are usually relevant to where they are guardianing. This isn't relevant to anything in the UK

 

I was of course speaking on the basis that the intention was to move and keep the locomotive preserved. As I also said, an uncomfortable decision may need to be taken.

I remember the outcry when the Belgium State Railways cut up a British built 0-6-0 (Drummond or Mackintosh? Can't remember). Do we also not have a duty of care, to other country's histories, as we expect them to have, of ours?

But I have to ask - £30K? Good grief. Life changing money, certainly, for the owner. But the onus seems to be that the owner wants to keep it preserved at the very least.