Hunslet Austerity, great locomotives.

I have heard that too,that the mechanical stoker fitted engines had a potensial very serious problem when in use even when working , In that the fire could creep along the screw and ignite the bunker

Would further development have improoved the system , how about oil firing did anyone seriously look at using oil firing with the gas producer system, could that have removed the problems associated with mechanical stokers ? Its an interesting thought ,

how much additional air through the box does the firebox air tubes actually give , i would have thought that introducing cold air into the hot box would create stresses to the firebox simular to when you leave the door open ,quite a few in preservation had the air tubes welded over

 

A modified austerity that finds speeds of 25 miles an hour with ease shorely more economical than a new build! If it's possible I find that exciting stuff!

 

Interesting article here:
Austerity 0-6-0st type as modified by L.D.Porta & Hunslet
including photos of the existing locos at Embsay and elsewhere.

This website also has lots of historical/current info on the gas producer system and its application to steam locos large and small. A quick intro is here:
The Gas Producer Combustion System
and more detail here:
The Work of Ing. L.D.Porta

Richard

 

Hi Steve - I'd be interested to hear more about the 1980s trials with 3168 if you have time. Were they instigated by the NCB or by Hunslet and did either party think the research would lead to any further steam development? As an outsider I would have thought at that time most NCB staff would have known the days of colliery steam were nearly over and, by then, Hunslet's steam business would have been no more than a low volume of orders for spare parts. So I've often wondered what the motivation was behind these tests.

 

Hi,

Does anyone have any idea how the kylphor arrangement compares to the giesel ejectors fitted to some of the austerities in terms of performance?

Just wondering

Chris

 

3168 was the last steam locomotive overhauled at Allerton Bywater for the NCB North Yorks Area and on which I worked during my Engineering training (along with Antwerp). When finished there was no work for it so it was put into store. Apart from a short period in steam for the BBC drama 'The Hills of Heaven' (for which it was painted green) it remained in store until 1980 when Hunslet approached us about the possibility of carrying out some trials with the locomotive. I've no idea why but the tale told by Hunslet staff was that, every year, John Alcock went on holiday and, whilst he was sat on the beach, he came up with some bizarre idea which he then came back with. In this year, he decided that oil supplies would be politically rationed and that there there would be a coal fired steam revival. This being the case, Hunslet needed to be at the forefront and the knowledge and technology of the Hunslet gas producer/stoker system would have to be revisited and relearnt. It may be fantasy but it probably has more than a bit of truth in it! No other logical reason has been forthcoming.
Hunslet fitters did all the work of getting the loco operational again and I simply acted as the NCB liaison person. The trials started at Allerton Bywater but the loco fouled the loader structure so it was transferred to Wheldale. It did a couple of weeks work there, accompanied by Hunslet service engineers, who made a few notes but there were no scientific measurements or anything other than subjective comment. If a formal report was done by Hunslet, we never saw it.
As the trials ended, it coincided with a particularly bad cold spell and the Wheldale diesel locos could not cope so 3168 was pressed into service to keep the pit operational. The rest is history. The stoker fell into disuse almost immediately and hand-firing became the norm. It was never a part of the Wheldale asset register so was not maintained, as such. Its continued use was simply expedience by the pit management when faced with nil availability off the diesel locomotives.
Happy memories!

 

He wasn't wrong, just about 35 years out with his dates .

 

Thanks Steve. I remember reading an article in one of the magazines about the loco still being in use at Wheldale and mentioning the Hunslet trials in passing. A fascinating tale!

 

I've practical experience of firing standard and Geisel fitted austerities (on the L&HR) and the Giesel does steam better than the standard arrangement. In my opinion its not that the Giesel is such a great device its that the standard arrangement is so poorly designed. The fitting of a Lempor or similar devise will have even better results is the test data is correct.

The only comparison data I have comparing the results of a std exhaust, Giesel and a Lempor is within D Wardle's mighty volume on the Red Devil in South Africa where differing designs are compared on a 25NC locomotive. This shows the Giesel with a slightly better performance than a std arrangement and then a much bigger jump in performance with a Lempor. However such a comparison between a 25NC working over considerable distances compared to an ‘ausie’ trundling along on a preserved railway is a bit like chalk & cheese - the likelihood of a humble 0-6-0 ever needing such high steaming rates is questionable.

A lempor type nozzle arrangement probably could be made to work with the existing chimney arrangement and could easily give the same improvement to a Giesel if not better, and you could maintain the traditional looks of the locomotive and not have to modify the saddle tank as is needed to get the Giesel to fit. Also a Lempor nozzle is a relatively easy fabrication, unlike the Giesel . . . . .


Fergus

 

Yes if you compare a well designed single jet blast pipe to a Lempor the performance increase is nowhere near as big. Most locos will gain simply from having the chimney the right shape in relation to the nozzle. That's the inside of the chimney not the outside or the colour it's painted.

Lempor nozzles are actually quite complicated fabrications. I expect the main benefit in the world of preserved railways is reducing the risk fire throwing rather than saving fuel, as fuel consumption can vary quite dramatically with amateur loco crews.

Tim

 

Yep agree strongly on this one.

Bunkum I'm afraid - go and take a look in a smokebox at the W&LLR and then at a Giesel loco - I know which one I'd like to replicate if I had to.

For spark arrestment you can't beat a self cleaning arrangement where the unburnt particles are bashed round in the smokebox and then have to pass a mesh BEFORE they even reach the blast nozzle . . . .

F

 

Austerity No 23 on the K&ESR (and USA No 65) has been recently fitted with an Armstrong multi jet blast pipe and petticoat pip which has made a difference to both steaming and economy. After years of indifferent steaming it's a lot more popular with the crews now.

 

Strictly speaking Pete it should be known as the 'Armgreat' system. It is a much researched and simplified variant of the 'Armstrong' front end developed by KESR's very own boffin engineer Chris Greatley. He was also responsible for the inception and installation of KESR's state of the art R.O. water treatment plant . His modernising work on front end design and water treatment has revolutionised the operation and maintenance of steam locomotives on the KESR over the last few years-and as you say has transformed our Hunslet Austerity 18" no 23.

 

'GreatArm' rolls off the tounge better! All credit to KESR for being bold enough to try something different in this area, and outside the 'Porta' development stream. Interestingly the 5AT group, having suspended work on their advanced locomotive project, have announced their next project is 'the design of a Lempor exhaust system for a standard gauge locomotive running on a Heritage Railway':
News | 5AT Advanced Steam Locomotive Project

 

Yes Miff-that may be correct but it doesn't follow the convention of the original designer's name first !