Gwalior Light Railway

Something to take us somewhere different. I can't help but think that for some reason we in the UK are a very closed shop when it come to acquiring steam locomotives for our heritage railways.

Recently I was sent a photo of a Queensland sugar cane railway steam locomotive which I was told is up for sale, as this is on going, I won't bore you all to death with what is happening, but it got me thinking about all the other 2ft gauge railways which has British built equipment on them, but which is now lay rusting away.

My first though was to the Gwalior Light Railway in Indian. the reason I am thinking about this railway is that I know two of its Pacific's locos where shipped back to the UK in the last ten years by Peter Rampton, but I have not heard of anything more since about this railway. I was wondering if anyone on this list has been there and if anyone happen to know what is still left out there, I did here there where a number of old steam locos stored and not working, but it would be good to confirm this and if possible does anyone have any photos of these locos.

Some one said it may be a good idea to get a couple for the rebuilt L&BR since it would then not be a Southern version of the W.H.R. and it would also be different, anyway if anyone can help, please let me know.

Regards

Colin

 

you could take a look at - [IRFCA] Indian Railways FAQ: Locomotives - General Information

which states:-

■NA 791, a 4-4-0 from the Gwalior Light Railways (original number 2A), the Maharaja's personal locomotive, used to be at the Gwalior palace grounds but is now in front of the Gwalior station. Kerr Stuart, 1895.Gwalior Light Railway 4-4-0

■NH/2 750, a 2-8-2 from the Gwalior Light Railways (Kerr Stuart, 1922), is on the porch of the Area Manager's Office at Gwalior.http://www.irfca.org/gallery/Steam/Survivors/central/NH2+750001.jpg.html?g2_imageViewsIndex=1

I'm sure I've seen a photo of one of the american look alike locos built by ? in a park in erm Bangalore (i think ?)http://www.flickr.com/photos/49329689@N03/5811277309

I don't know of any other locos "stored" though - I visited Gwalior in 1984 and would be interested if anything else survived.

FERGUS

 

We have all seen that there are many locos which are coming to the UK and I do wonder where they are all going to go, we only have so many railways that they can run on, so unless a new railway like Statfold is built some where, do we need to keep importing locos from around the world so they just rust away in a quiet field in the UK?

regards

Colin Rainsbury

 

Which locos are you thinking of here?

 

Hi Ken,

The above comment was made in reference to the number of small industrial locos which have appeared in the UK from around the world in this case. It is a very different matter, since the Lynton and Barnstaple is a big engine railway.

A Darjeeling 'C' CLASS 4-6-2 Pacific's come's to mind as an ideal size loco for the L&BR. But to build another Manning Wardle 2-6-2T is going to cost about £500,000 on current estimates.

I have seen somewhere I think on a German website some photos of some 2ft gauge locos in Peru, which would be great to have in the UK. But my point was that Gwalior (or India to be more precise) had the last collection of stuffed and mounted British build narrow gauge steam locomotives, that could have been suitable for a project like the L&BR.

Sure Exmoor Steam Center still has 4 ex SAR 2ft gauge steam locos still in store, and I would still like to see an NG15 running on the L&BR, as I think that is the size of loco that the railway could do with. The thing is, where, would you get a similar sized big 2ft gauge engine now?

I am sure in time the L&BRT will achieve its goal, in having the Baldwin 2-4-2T and its four Manning Wardles 2-6-2T’s as front line locomotives. It is something I would like to see, but some L&BR enthusiasts also think that the L&BR was built, with the idea of it being built in line with the then current Indian practice.

But if a locomotive that was suitable for the L&BR was just waiting to be purchased and brought back to the UK should we ignore it?

To me the L&BR cries out to be the home for big 2ft steam locos which can’t run anywhere else and in my view are non Garratt based.

Regards

Colin Rainsbury

 

Just to add that the Statfold Mallet, would be one of those locos I would have in the collection.

Regards

Colin

 

Some confused thinking here in my view. The small industrials being imported are far more likely to ever be restored precisely because they are small and relatively inexpensive to buy and restore, and they can run almost anywhere. Locos like the NG15 and Gwailor pacifics are more akin to standard gauge engines with commensurate bills.

Secondly, is the L & B ever going to be a line for an NG15 sized engine? Unless there's a major rethink on on things like platform lengths, the short of trains they could pull will be massively proportionate to the current and likely future infrastructure. I'd have thought that what they need is a quick fix in the form of some big tank engines - the Burma Mines Railway 2-6-2Ts come to mind. Leave the really big stuff to the Welsh Highland where it would be in keeping.

 

I take your point 61624, however the L&BR will still need locos that have a tractive effort of 7,500 Ibs +, most of the current small 2ft gauge locos do not come anywhere near to that.

For those following this thread and who are not as familiar with the L&BR as I am, I should explain that the L&BR is like a 20 mile long M with Barnstaple at Sea Level and both Blackmoor and Woody Bay the two highest points of the line. The line rises from Barnstaple to Blackmoor on a constant 1 in 50 for about eight miles (there are stories about crews during the southern days that hated working on the L&BR because it was such a difficult line to work). It then drops to the middle of the old Parracombe Bank and then begins to rise again to Woody Bay which is the highest station on the line (by a few feet), the high point is just beyond Woody Bay just under the A39. From there it drops down to Lynton on a general 1 in 50 gradient.

I don’t have anything against small 2ft gauge locos at all, but most of them where built for short run lines of no more than a couple of miles, they would have to stop and have a blow up to many times for the L&BR timetable.

I know that most of us involved with the L&BR don’t want the L&BR to be a carbon copy of the new WHR. But, as it is in the same class as the WHR we need to have similar size locomotives and there where a number of locos from Indian, which could have found a home on the new L&BR without much difficulties.

That is why I feel the need we should go and look and if possible acquire them while they are still about, so we do have them for a later date.

I understand that the guys from the WHR have explained the need to run longer trains on the L&BR simply to make ends meet.

 

Tipong Colliery in Assam has two or three ex Darjeeling 'B' Class locos. When I as there in February last year the only working loco was the Bagnall 'David' and the staff said that was only used when hired by groups of visiting enthusiasts. There was talk of one or more of the 'B' class being repaired but I think it unlikely as the place runs on a shoestring and they have at least two diesels. So they might be open to offers......? Don't know if anyone has been there more recentl?

I also wonder if there might be some locos left at other locations, in particular at the sugar plantations.

I did visit Gwalior in the early 1990s and could not find the old steam loco shed I had visited in 1983 and it seemed to have been totally obliterated.

You can see the Tipong shots here - http://mickpope.zenfolio.com/p143008826/h12a9d355#h12a9d355 and some shots of the Gwalior line in steam days here - http://mickpope.zenfolio.com/p226422494

 

I visited in the early 70s and was able to tour the works and ride the trains. I thought it was an amazing system and that it is very sad that it has received so little attention in the UK. In the 70s, it was quite difficult to visit as it was in a 'strategic area', whatever that means.

 

Hi Mick, thank you for sharing your photos with us, very atmospheric, it appears most of the Gwalior locos have already gone to the big scrap yard in the sky, but I have been told there may be a couple 2ft 6ins gauge versons still about

Regards

Colin

 

Hi John

Do I hear you working away on a model for County Gate????

 

Despite being a large loco it not all that powerful and not really ideal for fast running. I wouldn't put it in the same league as some of the locos being talked about in this thread.

Tim

 

"Hi John, Do I hear you working away on a model for County Gate????"

Hell, Martyn, you must have a spy camera. It is on the cards for Cliffhanger.