Rheidol tank on the WHR

In the past, Festiniog Railway locos have provided motive power on the Vale of Rheidol Railway, but not the reverse, notably because of loading gauge restrictions.

Is anyone aware of a physical problem, ie, gauge, that would prevent a Rheidol tank visiting the Welsh Highland at some time in the future? This is one of my "what ifs" and I just wondered. It would be interesting to see Lyd and Llywelyn side by side... Southern and Great Western of similar outline.

I don't expect it will happen, certainly not in the short term, but I wondered. I am only asking about "physical" considerations. I'm sure theres many other reasons why such a thing has not and will not happen.

Andrew

 

Although both railways were originally 597mm gauge, the VoR is now 603mm. The difference in the wheel back to backs means that VoR locos would have trouble with the points on the F&WHR.

 

Would this cause a problem the other way around, i.e. if Palmerston were to revisit Aberystwyth?

 

Or even Lyd visiting Aber for a SR / GWR comparison?

 

It is my understanding that F&WHR spec locos could run on the VoR, but not vice versa.

 

Even if it was physically possible, Im not sure the VoR could spare one of the GWR tanks as you need both in high summer and your up the proverbial creek the rest of the time if the one you keep is failed, only way I reckon they could free one up would be when/if No7 is restored.

 

definitely a when David.

 

One of the Rheidol tanks and the Baldwin pacific from Brecon would be my ideal visitors to the WHR so it's a shame about the gauge difference. Lyd on the VoR would certainly be something I'd like to see too.

 

There is of course one problem... the VOR stock is Air and the FR is Vac... not a impossible problem, but an extra annoyance.

 

Remember, Mountaineer successfully visited the VoR in the '80s so I would guess that Palmerston or Lyd would have no trouble.

 

But was this not before the VoR changed from vac to air braking? Back then Mountaineer would have been compatible but not now!

 

Why did the Rheidol switch from Vac to Air ?, I was under the impression there was very little between them in terms of maintenence and performing so Im curious why it was done.

 

Running costs are lower so I'm lead to believe - the amount of steam used in an ejector with it using steam all the time when running is quite considerable compared to the 'occasional' use of a compressor.

I would imagine the maintainance costs for vac systems are also likely to increase over time as more and more systems make vacuum obsolete - although thats only speculation on my part.

 

Good point! Nevertheless, as long as FfR engines can cope with the track then double-heading with an air-braked engine might be possible.

Imagine Lyd double-heading with Russell on the climb to Devil's Bridge...a man can dream! :tongue1:

 

However the facilities available at heritage railways now for Vac Braking maintenance/testing/replacement are pretty impressive. Kidderminster Carriage Works has some very impressive equipment for all of that.

 

The components for all this air braking gear is available off the shelf in the form of truck components, so regardless of facilities other railways have its probably still a lot cheaper in that respect. Anyone whos experienced the difference in water consumption of air and vacc will not dobut why a 'commercial' line such as the VoR has gone for air, even though its a shame it's made the engines look a bit different. I think there's somthing a bit unique about the VoR air system, whether or not that makes it less compatible with other systems I don't know.

 

Some interesting posts on the merits of Vac v Air, not overly fussed which system is used, just curious more than anything.

 

My understanding of it is as follows:

The switch over was carried out as the vac braking system that was in place on the railway when we took over from BR was pretty much life expired having been botched together for many years and caused nothing but trouble. Something had to be done about it as the provision of an effective continuous brake is essential. Different options were weighed up at the time and it was decided that a twin line air brake system would be the most cost effective option. The majority of components were already available whereas if vacuum braking had been retained it would have been a very costly process to thoroughly overhaul / renew all of the equipment.

As it stands now, the braking system is incredibly reliable, perfectly adequate for our needs and also enables us to stop a train far quicker than you can with vacuum. From a safety point of view this is very important. Additionally the minimal maintenance required makes better use of works staff time.

Additionally once the locomotives had been converted to air braking, the loco fuel bill (as we were entirely oil fired then) dropped dramatically bringing with it cost savings.

Its a bit of a no brainer!

In my opinion one of the beauties of the Vale of Rheidol is that every train is hauled by a vintage loco built especially for the line and all trains use vintage stock rather than more modern stock. Not many railways in Britain can claim that!

Nevertheless, I am sure one day the chance arrive whereby we host a visiting engines -who knows what the future has in store . . .

Regards,
Will
VoR

 

Thank you Will, it's good to have an authoritative answer
I'd certainly agree that part of the VoR's charm is its authenticity: locos and stock all built for the line, still doing the job they were designed for (except the modern-day maintenance stock, of course, but passengers don't travel on that!). Devil's Bridge is perhaps the most authentic terminus station on the British narrow gauge today, not having been overwhelmed by new buildings, cafe, gift shop, museum or whatever. (Of course, one understands the necessity of those features for most railways, but it is nice to have at least one terminus that retains a genuinely steam-age atmosphere!). Nevertheless, it would be fun to bring in visiting engines, just for a weekend!
Of course, another potential solution to the braking problem would be to hire in stock as well as locos. For example, Palmerston's haulage capacity on the VoR would be very limited in any case, so why not bring a couple of FfR coaches with her, as was done for Railfest? Admittedly, you would then have to charge high fares to cover the extra costs, but if you bill it as a historic one-off visit then I think people would be willing to pay. Just a thought?

 

Alas the seating appears to have been designed by someone from the Spanish Inquisition!

P.H.