All aboard the Lynton & Barnstaple

Having read the consultation doc. and noted that, on more than one occasion, the L&BR's stated intention is to reopen the whole of the line in due course, I wonder if a serious objector would want his/her objection, although relating to a section of the line not forming part of this application, heard at this juncture. They may feel that approval for the Wistlandpound/Caffyns section is in fact, tacit approval of the whole scheme and if they delay objecting, they may lose the initiative and a future objection would not carry the weight it would now.

I can envisage much time being wasted while lawyers and judges decide whether such an objection has the right to be considered as there may be a direct interest.

On the subject of the bridge design, my preference is for a super-modern design with architectural merit, which itself would be a point of interest..

Perhaps a design competition L&B ?

 

I'd prefer something that looks like Lancey Brook Viaduct

 

I think the embankment/trackbed might be a bit high for a Lancy Brook look alike, you'll have to wait a bit longer, until we get back to Bridge 30 - it would probably suit that site quite well

In truth, planning considerations are likely to favour something less ostentatious, so the through-girder is a more likely outcome.

I seem to recall reading that in 1898, Parracombe Bank was one of the few railway works in the country with the construction track actually broader-gauge (3ft, perhaps?) than the finished line...

 

Let's just hope that the lawyers and judges don't get amongst it - they are the great stoppers. I like the JDI approach of John Prescott to the Welsh Highland project, much though I abhor his politics!

 

For those that haven't checked the L&B website in the past couple of days, there is a new presentation available (PowerPoint converted to PDF), detailing the plans for Exmoor Enterprise.

http://lynton-rail.co.uk/files/pdfs/Exmoor_Enterprise_2012_slideshow.pdf

It's been a while since there's been an update on the Members page. The post from June 9th states that there is some "very exciting news" regarding Exmoor Enterprise. I wonder what that could be?

 

If it's what I think it is, we await the final crossing of t's and dotting of i's ....

 

Well, that's one of them...

 

I am not sure about slide 14 item 13, perhaps some rewording to avoid confusion? Looking forward to hearing the "exciting news"

 

Before people start to get warm and fuzzy about what sort of bridges they would like between Wistlandpound and Caffyns, might they ask themselves exactly who would be paying tp travel on this line, and why? The L&B currently carries about 40,000 passengers each year, much the same as the Exmoor Steam Railway did, a short journey at relatively little cost. But how many would pay four times as much to travel from a car park at Blackmoor Gate to Caffyns, and why? Blackmoor, Woody Bay, even Caffyns - Lynton makes sense, fulfilling a triple purpose of a guaranteed parking place, an easy way to the twin towns, and keeping cars away from the Exmoor coast, but stopping at Caffyns??
The L&B initially started toward Parracombe, because it was stated, that this 1.5 mile section could be opened quite quickly and cheaply. Now it is obvious that an expensive TWO would be required for any further extension, surely it's time to look to where the bigger attraction (and thus income) lies, and 'go for Lynton'! Then extend southwards if the economics justified it. Yes, the National park doesn't like development on Exmoor, but if they allow a non-original bright red telephone kiosk at Woody Bay, they presumably wouldn't object to a discreetly-screened medium-sized car park!

 

Hi Ellenbee,

As you know, terminating at Caffyns is only a intended as a temporary measure. Quoting directly from the L&B Website: "The Railway aspires to reinstate all of the route from Blackmoor Gate to Lynton in the lifetime of the Plan."

The short-medium term plan is to extend the line all the way from Wistlandpound to a new terminus closer to Lynton than the original 1898 terminus. However, "Rome wasn't built in a day", "The longest journey starts with a single step", and "One has to cut ones coat according to ones cloth", to mix a few metaphors. On top of all that, the L&B plans have to take account of the legal requirements for obtaining a TWO etc., as well as being closely linked to the plans for Exmoor National Park and the rest of North Devon. More details of the overall plan are available on the L&B website.

As for stopping at Caffyns - there is no difference between that and starting at Woody Bay, but the modern railway had to start somewhere. Would you rather nothing was started until the whole nineteen miles could be reopened in one fell swoop? There has always been a need for a TWO or similar statutory instrument for the railway to cross any public highway, so the Woody Bay section could never be any longer than it is now without major engineering works, and statutory approval.

PS
Incidentally, I do agree with you to some extent, in that I feel the telephone box is something of an anachronism, as:
(A) there was never a telephone box at Woody Bay and
(B) the box currently being restored post-dates the closure of the line by several years,
BUT
(C) Mobile signals on the site are very poor - if available at all, so the box could actually be a valuable facility to visitors, especially as there isn't another public call box for quite some distance.
(D) Whilst not strictly accurate or authentic, there is a nostalgia for these boxes and an association of them in heritage sites, so to the general public who will form the majority of our passenger-based income stream, it will not seem out of place, even if they notice it, and
(E). Personally, I would prefer to do without it, but we cannot preserve the L&B as it was, pickled in a jar, it has to be a living, evolving tourist attraction and community facility. Only that way will it stand a reasonable chance of thriving.

That is my personal opinion, for what it's worth.

 

An interesting sentiment, accusing me of not being pro-active, considering I was Vice-Chairman of the L&B Trust until almost the start of current services! You know as well as I do, that we have to start somewhere, and it's not the start that concerns me, but the immediate goal. Set Caffyns as the mid-term destination, and it'll will quickly become a long-term project. Lynton, and a real transport market, will become a long-term aspiration. I note that you do not answer the main part of my post, the financial returns of a Blackmoor-Caffyns service. It will go from a road junction with a pub and two cottages, to a minor road junction with a farmhouse. Where's the draw in that?

You must also know that I have repeatedly said that the L&B cannot hope to run an economical service with strictly original outline stock. However, putting a bright red phonebox up on Exmoor on the spurious hope someone might want to use it carries as much weight as digging up Woody Bay's garden so that someone can play with their miniature steam engine and provide 'an attraction'. It's no use accepting a facility just because you're given one - on that logic if someone gave you Concorde would you put that up at Woody Bay too?
If it's not on the plan, don't change the plan to make someone happy. You have to start with the customer, what they will pay for, and how best to cater for them. Then you make a clear, concrete plan that shows what market you are going for, and all the best ways of maximising revenue from it. All the detail will flow from that.

What you cannot do is build a railway that's convenient for you, and hope, just hope, someone will use it!

 

Currently, the railway runs from a station by the side of the road that serves no population to a temporary halt in a field, and still manages to draw ~33,000 passengers per year. I have no doubt that a longer railway, starting from Blackmoor (with improved facilities, parking, etc.) will significantly increase visitor numbers, even before the line reaches Lynton.

Let's hope that the project gets the required planning permission and TWO, and that it is then able to generate the funds required to get to Lynton as quickly as possible.

 

33,000 passengers a year. That is less than the Exmoor Steam Railway acheived 10 years ago at a site in the middle of nowhere well away from the main tourist areas. Extending to Caffyns, at huge expense, is unlikely to bring a commensurate rise. Not when the West Somerset is only 20 miles distant. Whatever is decided, the overriding questions must be,
Who will use it? Where will they come from? Why would they use it?

 

Why does the L&B engender such emotion and disaccord?

 

I would answer this by saying that we are all seeking perfection with the last Narrow Gauge Railway Project

 

As with most heritage projects, it seems there are always some embittered folk from the early days of the movement who have become soured that the scheme didn't follow their precise dream. They become even more fed up when the project looks like it's on the verge of a great leap forward despite no longer being as they wanted it to be.
Advice? Find a new project to support and stop carping and sniping at those who are actually moving the L&B forward...

 

Your unbridled bitterness is such a pain in the arse to sift through. Take the blinkers off. 33,000 visitors to a one-mile narrow gauge railway which runs from nowhere to nowhere is fantastic. You don't have the best interests of the L&B at heart. The definition of a pioneer is somebody who wants to reach a new territory, a trailblazer. You're nothing but a roadblock.

 

When a new railway project is just a dream in a pub, it attracts some quite stange people. If the project actually gets off the ground and becomes successful, it is necessary to weed out these people who inevitably become bitter. They are the ones who prefer the dream over their fourth pint rather than reality.

 

Guess they said that to the little boy who spotted the Emperor had no clothes. I joined the L&B in 1988. I was elected to the old Association Committee in 1992. I was a founder director of the company. I was founder member of both trusts. I became Vice-Chairman of the second Trust, and would have become Chairman on Doug Hill's illness if I hadn't had to go and serve in Iraq. I also launched Project Yeo and trained as both driver and guard. I have spent over £10,000 supporting the L&B.

What have you done?

 

Having put so much into the project, surely you want to see it succeed?

Exmoor Enterprise is moving forward with much professional input from ARUP. They have no doubt given very good reasons why Phase II should be Blackmoor to Caffyns (with a short extension to Lynton).

I have only been a member of the trust for a year, and have no comprehension of what went on in the past (nor am I interested). However, I am very excited about what is happening now and in the next few years. For the record, what would your plans have been and where do they differ from the current situation?