Railway Touring Company

Check out the listings on their facebook page for the tours at the end of the year.

 

If I remember correctly, RTC have advertised No. 7 to work the return Tynesider for the last couple of years, but it never has.

 

Thye problem is that tours are "planned" ahead of the minimum 12 weeks that Notwork Rail give the TOCs and locos are booked that are still in a workshop - look at Braunton as another example. Then the tours are sold as it everything is a done deal. Perhaps discalimers should be made more openly?

 

46115 ran out of London towards Basingstoke and 6233 only as far as Redhill then along the Surrey Hills, it must get much tighter further south as Bittern was out of guage for the Lewes one which is how come its Tangmere, Tornado, a Black 5 or one of the Britannia's. As long as its steam when it runs I don't mind as only had half a tour steam hauled out of the three scheduled this year!

 

6233 has been further than Redhill. On 1st June 2008 she ran Waterloo-Salisbury-Yeovil Jc - Castle Cary-Taunton-Exeter as part of the Loco Exchange Special. I photted it at Brookwood.
46115 got a bit further than Basingstoke on 9th July 2010. She ran Kensington Olympia-Salisbury-Yeovil Jc and then Weymouth-Southampton-Waterloo on a Dorset Coast Express.

 

Back in 2001 I recall seeing 6233 on the Dawlish sea wall, very much the 'Lady in Red' then, so must have been heading for Plymouth or Torbay at least.

 

The Redhill-Reading and Waterloo-Salisbury/Weymouth lines are fairly accomodating. Vintage Trains are planning to take 5043 to Salisbury next April, and if you can fit a big GWR beast, clearances can't be too bad there. On the other hand, Kent, I think, is basically for Bulleids, Britannias and Black Fives only. I would think that the Brighton mian line is fairly OK, but east and west are more difficult. 30777 was substituted by 44871 on an RTC Three Bridges-Bath train a couple of years ago because of a restriction at Chichester. and a restriction at Hamble put paid to 34067 working west to Weymouth on June 30th of this year.I would suspect that Bittern's problems were between Keymer Junction and Lewes - the curve into Lewes Station through the tunnel would be the most likely culprit, but this is just my speculation.

 

There's a couple of gauging problems in Kent even for 34067 but I can't remember the locations.

 

Plymouth to be exact, and in the westbound direction she was being driven by Bryan Dudley-Ward I seem to remember, a subject of the "Main Line Steam Driver Legends" thread.

Very good railtour, promoted by the late lamented Past Time Rail. I remember the guy opposite us phoning his mate as we approached the top of Hemerdon, and holding his phone out of the window saying, "This is what a proper locomotive sounds like" ! Driver duties by this stage had been handed over to Paul Burns I think who used to be a regular on WC steam but doesn't seem to appear any more for some reason ?

I think it was the first time, (I may be wrong), that a loco was allowed to take 10 over the Devon banks single handed, due to 6233's immense power output, although others obviously followed.

 

Agreed, disclaimers should definitely be made more openly as the evidence now shows that what's advertised (offered) this far in advance is subject to considerable variation.

I'm sorry but I still contend that Promoters should not be advertising tours using locomotives that have not yet passed a main line test. I accept there's NR's "12 week rule" but Promoters need to plan their way around this so they are still able to offer / advertise tours in advance but only with locomotives that are known to be "runners". If they're subsequently unfit to run that is a different matter but advertising tours with locomotives that are "still in a workshop" is simply inexcusable in my view, and unnecessary.

 

Recently, a number of steam hauled Pathfinder Tours have originally been rostered to 34046, which as we know is out of action at the minute. I draw your attention to the Pathfinder website (more specifically to the 'Solent Pacific' page). It clearly says at the bottom of the page that if 34046 is unavailable, then either 70000 or 4464 will step in. They said something very similar when they ran the Pompey Pacific railtour last September - if 34046 is unavailable, another Pacific will be sought.

Personally, I think as long as the promoter has a back up 'pool', like Pathfinder do, then there should never be a problem...

James at SVN

 

Where a footnote like the one to which you refer is included it's less of a problem I agree. Unfortunately the Pathfinder example is not the example followed by RTC who clearly believe in the "carrot waiving" method of doing business, i.e. soaking up the potential railtour market months ahead with enticing prospects which may or may not actually happen.

I am myself very tempted by "The Tin Bath" tour next March but after contacting 5 friends to suggest we book a group of 6 First Class seats, at least two of them, (only two have responded to date) are reluctant to book for fear the tour will either not happen at all or the route will change, not to mention the availability of the two Black 5s, which on this tour you could argue is something of a "selling point". Consequently, RTC will not be getting a booking worth £594 until much closer to the running date, by which time other interests may have intervened.

Also, you've got to remember that RTC will want money up front for these trips so you kiss goodbye to a considerable sum now for something from which you won't benefit for 7 months, and may well bear no resemblance to what you originally paid for when it happens. This is where reputation is so crucial to an organisation. RTC are fast becoming known as the Tour Operator that promises a lot but often delivers less unfortunately. This will have a knock on effect in time as people simply won't part with hard earned money for something they fear will turn out to be something different from what they expected. The more enticing the offers, the more profound any disappointment will be if the offer isn't delivered.

If RTC are confident in their product why don't they introduce a deposit system for booking railtours ? It used to be a common practice a few years ago, (albeit on request), and indeed UKR will still delay charging a debit / credit card for a railtour full stop until 4 weeks before it runs to this day ! A much fairer way of doing business quite frankly. I'd also be interested to know whether RTC match revenue they receive now for tours they expect to run next year, against costs they are incurring now, as that would be contrary to the "matching concept" of Accounting Principles.

 

Got to admit booked on The Elizabethan, and my card was not charged until 2 weeks before departure.

We had booked over 4 months before for the tour, so if 1 can do it cant others, to me it strikes of cashflow, promising the earth, getting the cash in, and delivering as best they can within their TOC constraints.

 

Quite right, and I think that's a policy of Pathfinder actually who handled the bookings for The Elizabethan. It's the right way of doing things but having booked with RTC in the past I don't believe it to be their practice. I can well remember this is how "Days Out" operated before they went bust. Eventually it must have caught up with them I guess as you end up with a money go round and it only takes a few tours to get cancelled, and refunds having to be issued, (which of course they aimed never to have to do by transferring bookings), for the whole thing to "buckle" with the consequent loss of ability to pay creditors.

 

An old recurring theme. If you sell a product and deliver an different one you are at risk of mis-selling. One day this will be challemeged in a Court by a disgruntled customer and they will win, hence the policy of paying people off at the threat of legal action.

1. You cannot guarantee a train will run more than 12 weeks in advance - make that clear
2. If you do not have a valid contract for the loco you are advertising, make that clear too that it is the intention and maybe list potential alternatives.
3. Don't take the money until you have water tight contracts all round

 

Quite right ! Hope ND or someone else from RTC is reading this. To me, they could happily get away with imposing substitute traction, (provided it's still steam), as most are tolerant of that as has already been discussed, but route changes like those imposed on "The Lincoln Imp" recently, which not only saw the promised departure from SPI withdrawn , but also a large proportion of the steam mileage, simply is not on, and that message needs to be driven home in no uncertain terms in my view ! Maybe a test case in the courts is the way that'll finally happen ?

 

I someties think that tour operators don't take into consideration that some customers have other associated costs - travel to the promised start and accommodation to reflect the start and finish time. In essence, the tour is the focal point and resaon for being in that part of the country. Accommodation can be secured at a discount but that is non-refundable in most cases, so a loss can be significant on top of the tour. If it is not the tour you bought you can understand the anger.

 

The travel and accommodation point is a good one, and you can indeed understand the anger if after already paying for the tour PLUS associated costs, you dont get what you pay for.

I sometimes think those out there who maintain everything is "fine and dandy" all the time are those lucky enough not to have to travel far to join the majority of Railtours. I lived in central London between 1992 and 1997 and could walk to any London Terminus within a maximum of one hour so I was always very cool about early starts / late finishes as my journey home was always independent of the transport network. When I moved to the west country however it was a different story, and now I am limited to those tours that start from Bristol etc. The only station I can walk to though is Weston-super-Mare so that limits me to The Torbay Express only unless I invest in either expensive peak time travel or overnight accommodation, both of which add to the cost. I am only likely to do that therefore if I'm confident a railtour is going to run as advertised. Is that really such an unreasonable expectation in the 21st Century ?

 

It's an interesting thought.... I did a very quick analysis of the UK Steam Info site to see if these arguments stack up and the results were revealing. A quick glance (and don't quote me for the veracity of all the info posted on UKSI) showed the following for the calendar year to date:

Steam Dreams: Tours planned - 35, Tours cancelled - 1 (3%), Tours significantly changed - 6 (17%)
Railway Touring Co: Tours planned - 64, Tours cancelled - 9 (14%), Tours significantly changed - 6 (11%)

I didn't bother with the other players, these two seem the most active in the market. I don't pretend that this a scientific approach but it produced some intriguing results nevertheless.

Foxy

 

Living west of the Severn puts me in a similar position. However, booking an hotel which allows cancellation up to 24h before the reservation and buying rail tickets at the station (it amazes me that I can still get a better deal this way rather than booking in advance, even if it means buying multiple single tickets!) on the day of travel can soften the blow of a cancelled tour.

Foxy