BBC4 Intercity 125 programme

Now online.

Very good indeed. Loads of interviews with the designers and team behind it (including the ad agency). Quality programming that BBC4 is capable of.

BBC Four - The Age of the Train

Only online for another 6 days though.

 

I can agree a good watch. Whilst not being around during the era myself, I could appreciate that the programme seemed to be less heavy on the usual bias and black & white views that are often brought out for such documentaries. It seemed to take a more balanced view which (I can only guess) was probably much closer to the truth.

 

Good programme. Picking fault I would have liked it to have been made clearer that the HST was for non-electrified routes unlike the APT but they did seem to like the HST vs APT 'battle' as a thread.

 

Didn't realise the cab design from the prototype to the production models was changed because the unions insisted on 2 man operation. Nothing changes union wise does it!
Ironic they are single man now anyway. Likewise with the buffers, re-introduced on some production sets.

 

At the time it was very much an HST vs APT 'battle'. I can still remember the issue of 'Modern Railways' c1970-1 when an article appeared announcing the two projects and the thrill of first travelling to Bristol mid-1976 on the IC125. I have a vivid memory of the HST overtaking a Cl50 in Sonning Cutting on the return journey.

IIRC - and I may not be - the main issue with the APT was the brakes. There were two systems, disc for high speed braking, and old fashioned clasp brakes for lower speeds and the attempt to integrate the two failed.

A good programme, well worth watching; no doubt it will be repeated for those who missed it.

Regards

 

Yes, Saturday night BBC 4, 10:40pm (22:40 in modern terms). Plus iPlayer for the next 6 days or so.

 

To be fair, having space for more than one crewmember is prudent even if single manning is intended, means they can be used for route learning and if they need a pilotman etc.

Hindsights a wonderfull thing, but if they knew how close they were to getting the APT right, I think BR would of persisted with it, am I right in thinking the main difference that makes a Pendo's tilt work is that it lets you feel the bends slightly (engineered out on the APT), so your brain doesn't get disorientated and make you feel sick ?.

 

Just put it on now. Quite nice when your girlfriend also wants to watch it too...!

 

My memory seems to recall that the 2 main problems were related to the mechanics of the tilt mechanism which was liable to failure and the passenger reaction to tilt which produced a feeling of nausea due to the combined effect of the tilt and the visual reaction affecting the brain's intelligence. This latter problem may be why the Pendelino design has smaller windows and seat / window locations but I am aware of people still being similarly affected on modern tilting trainsets both here and in foreign railways. It was also interesting that only slight reference was made to the fact that the APT projects (electric and diesel) were created by engineers from the aircraft industry whilst the HST project was staffed by time-served railway engineers.

Another item of interest that passed by (sic) was the 4-car gas turbine APT with the channelled front but this proved fuel thirsty. The (apocrophyl ?) tale is told that when on a Derby - Bedford test run it refuelled at Bedford and the depot man told the crew to close down the trainset as "it was consuming fuel faster than the fuelling point could get it in !"

 

Too much use of old BBC comedy footage, disappointing choice of material. Would have liked to have seen more about how the design was an improvement on the Blue Pullman. But the HST design is superior in so many different ways to the Voyagers and other rubbish which has followed it - cramped seats, poor catering facilities and limited luggage space.

 

That has more to do with modern crash worthyness requirements for 140MPH running (originally intended speed for Pendo's).

 

Smelly toilets!

 

This may be too political for some, but - Thank God for the BBC. You wouldn't get a programme of this quality from Murdoch's lot. I love the BBC.

 

I have to say that I found this program really interesting. Found out a lot of things that I did not know about. Good on the BBC for showing this program. Happy to pay my tv licence for more programs like this.

 

Thanks for the tip-off about this programme, copied last nights to watch in the near future.
I still remember the sight of the prototype at Shildon 1975, very similar nose to the A4.
Quite agree with the earlier posting, pulled the plug too soon on the APT- typical BR government- it would have solved the problems given another year. We still had to invest in altered track alignments etc anyway to get the speeds needed.
Also agree with earlier comment about HST v Bombardier sets, prefer the HST anytime.
When will someone realise that trains used to be 11 or 12 coaches long with space to breathe, not 4 cramped up together, yuck.

 

Really? Quite apart from not actually working, they still had the power car(s?) in the middle… I can't imagine that being anything other than annoying in a service train (they can't keep one buffet stocked on most services, let alone one for each end of the train…). It'd be interesting to know what, if anything, APT-E and APT-P had in common - I suspect not much, and that the 'P' had a lot more prototyping to go before it was service ready. The farcical promotional runs in the 80s seemed more like a desperate bid for more funding, rather than a sign they were ready for service.

That said, I remember being very excited having my sandwiches in one at an Old Oak Common Open Day…

Simon

 

Ever tried Eurostar... It might not have a power car in the middle, but it has 1st class separated by economy both sides and so 2 buffets.
In Europe TGVs often run in pairs and the physical prevention of walking end to end isn't an issue.

 

What about those nasty Voyager things? When they run in two sets they need two sets of train crew/catering etc. The worst things to grace the rail tracks of Britain.
Makes HST's look like luxury liners. What were Virgin thinking of when they introduced them?

 

I'm guessing that probably makes sense when the units are 15-20 coaches… but I thought APT-P was only a 7-8 coach unit? Multiple units equals multiple buffets, so not bad for customers, but a bit daft for operators.

But I can't claim to know much about it, it just feels as though we've rather moved away from 'power cars' (one of the reasons HST is starting to look rather anachronistic) in the years after the APT came to an inglorious end.

Simon

 

Any incarnation of sticking an engine underneath a passenger cabin is a recipe for noise, vibration and heat - the Voyagers and the other similar types are little different from the 1st generation DMUs - the ride quality may be better, which in part is due to better track conditions i.e. CWR but the noise, vibration and heat remain although admittedly reduced. This is why in my opinion the HST formation of twin power cars and mk3 coaches is so superior to any of the other fixed train units for passenger comfort. (None electrified routes)