Tornado

If were going that way round, why's somerset having a gala about Stockton and Darlington? :loco:

 

Becasue they have just found out whos been making the decent engines all along....

Anyway, back on topic... I would be surprised of Tornado was not repainted at York. I am also surprised at the amount of time that the engine has been in Brunswick Green. Hardly long enough to tour many lines and routes and given Tornado is not used as often as before. I would think if thats the case that BR Blue will last a year, before the return of Apple Green - Tornados supposed true livery, although the board seemed to have decided that, rather than supporters. Thats got to be linked to Joe Publics view, that express engines are big, named and Apple Green. 4472 has a lot to answer for and Tornado has been able by chance to grab the market share and cement an image similar to that it has emulated since it was built. Now a return to its former and first guise is what I expect before the big push for overhaul funds starts in over a years time. Question is... shouldnt Tornado have made enough to cover that itself...

 

Even locos that don't suffer expensive, unplanned stoppages struggle to raise the cost of an overhaul from hire-fees. I guess the enforced lay-offs while the firebox was sorted out have left a bit of a hole in the budget. Still, Tornado's in a better situation than most, with such a high profile and a large "supporters club" to help out. I bet those who care for 71000 would like to have the A1 Trust's money worries, instead of their own, just at the moment!

 

Personally think they will be fine, its not 70 years old, they have a fantastic marketing team behind them as well. Anybody who goes on a trip behind her cannot be impressed by the brochure of items for sale, and they are normally on train for delivery before journeys end.

In the marketing respect alot of societys could learn from them, undoubtably the DBS dispute has hurt a bit, nice to see them venturing north for starts next year, the one that gets my attention is Newcastle-carlisle-glasgow-edinburgh-newcastle, how long have we waited for something like this to happen????

 

Regarding the colour of the paint - at all the covenantors meetings I've attended, there has never been any dissent over this. The ground swell of opinion is that her design is a product of the LNER and therefore Apple Green is the most appropriate livery which also suits her best (I agree wholeheartedly) and that is the 'brand' the public identify with after Top Gear etc. The rapid rotation of other liveries is, I believe, partly to benefit some of the more elderly members who have made significant contributions to her construction.

As for overhaul costs, what evidence do you have that these won't be covered from operating income exactly??

 

Tornado obviously took out there loan to Finnish the job, which is either just been paid off or is about to be paid off. Can't remember which. But I would have thought that tornado should with sales of branded goods and income from hire fees cover its first overhaul. Which should be a lot cheaper as its new?? Anyway I think any group out there should try to emulate the tornado income. If I'm right they have 2000 monthly donors, even if this is just £5 per month it's still £10, 000 per month x12 is £120, 000 per year. Plus from what I have heard they do £200, 000 in sales. So if you say half is profit , then maybe pay 2people £25, 000 per year to look after it. Maybe £50, 000 profit per year to go back to loco? That sounds like fantastic place to be if you ask me. Maybe other loco groups should look to them as being the best out there, and try to replicate.

 

According to a news item on the A1 Trust website, tomorrow's (October 6th) Cathedrals Express from Southend to Canterbury will be her last in Brunswick Green before the repaint to BR Express Blue.

No sign of The Shakespeare Limited tour anymore and the Tour Programme was updated yesterday so presumably cancelled or postponed.

 

And what more of a fitting tribute than going out to Photograph her (Which will probably be in the pooring rain) I'll be at Tonbridge station London end. What is it with all the cancellations this year with Gauging issues and DBS disputes etc....
Going onto something non related to Tornado, I picked up a copy in store in Tescos just the other day and read that they are having problems raising money for 71000 to go Mainline?? Why don't the owning company do what Tornado have done as to what a previous user posted??

 

Tornado has excellant marketing there's no doubt about that.
but it also has a product to market.. The brand " tornado" is.
It's exploiting that brand that generates the revenue.

there aren't many engines outside Thomas, Rocket, 4468, 4472 and 6100 that have the "brand" effect on the public as a whole, sadly 71000 isn't it. i suspect the P2 will be a harder sell than Tornado.

 

It needs to be pointed out that;

The trust stated explicitly that Tornado would carry all three liveries in the course of her first operating period before heavy overhaul.

The period in Brunswick green was brought forward so that a specific member of the trust, who sadly is no longer with us, could experience it.

The period in Brunswick green has been split slightly by the boiler troubles, thankfully sorted now.

Tornado going into blue from dark green makes sense as it doesn't require an expensive repainting of the wheels throughout (as it would for apple green). Thus saving some costs.

As for costs - bear in mind what needs to be paid for on a daily basis. Pathing, crew, support crew, fuel, stabling facilities, etc etc. Tornado is like every other mainline locomotive group in that respect. Where she differs is the number of covenators, merchandise and profile. Don't forget how the money comes in - a steady flow as opposed all up front, in terms of the covenants.

 

The Tornado team is very effective at marketing the Tornado brand, helped in many ways by the fact there isn't another A1. To emulate their success with other locos would be difficult especially as there aren't that many "one offs" active in the steam railway scene and trying to explain why your (insert loco class here) is more special than its surviving class mates is not easy.

 

A key part of selling any engine to the public and gaining interest is having one that can stand out amongst others, be unique, which engines like 4472 and 60163 can quite easily, particularly as they've had so much media coverage.

Now in my opinion, I don't see any problem with selling the P2 as it does tick all the right boxes. It's big, it stands out and its very unlikely you would mistaken it for any other engine (it's looks are both striking and one of a kind.)

There are 2 things though that they would have to be wary of.

Firstly, it will need a striking name that no one will forget, Tornado is a name that nearly everyone knows now, the P2 must have an equally unique identity.

And Secondly, they need to ensure that it gets maximum media coverage. Having Prince Charles name it, starring on Top Gear, these along with wide media coverage have helped to make Tornado a well recognised and liked mechanical celebrity, most crucially creating the `Tornado Effect` as it is often called.

Now, it will be rather difficult for the A1 Trust to recreate the same level of fame for the P2 that Tornado gained, as the A1 was the first newly built engine for the mainline to be completed, so as consequence all the other new builds that follow (including the P2) won't have the same fame or wide as coverage. But despite all that, I do believe that the P2 is still very much a pebble that can make ripples in the water... if done right, and the A1ST have more then enough experience and know how to do so.

Though first things first, make sure it can be as practical as Tornado, or at least as close to it as possible. Its a big engine to build, so making sure that everything (design wise) is as good as it can be, must be top priorty.

 

Agreed, though it took 20 years to raise £3mn, and they were the only new build guys in town, ive heard £5mn quoted for a P2.. And were in a different econmic landscape, with 20 competing projects and a loco, no matter how interesting, has very few people alive to have seen originally.

However they could possibly build a P2 at a much lower cost and much shorter timescale, If the P2 is as in common with the A1 as suggested...
If they sacrificed tornado's boiler and tender at the next overhaul and focus on building the rolling 2-8-2 chassis between now and 2018... The "budget" 2-8-2 could then be up and running generating revenue for a new boiler, tender etc for 60163 in the boilers 2nd 10 year ticket sitting on 2007 whilst the marketing guys can promote the reinvented rebuilt tornado's new disguise... (let's be honest as with all engines.. Once the liveries have been done a certain amount of interest will wane for a period and this brings it back.. Especially if it were still named Tornado.

It also reduces 60163's overhaul to just that of the boiler and tender by reinventing industry practice of rebuilds etc.

Plus also consider the costs of trying to run 2 competing locomotives against inevitably affected returns, it may be economic sense, for the cost of not using 60163's chassis/wheels and cylinders for a few years whilst the funds are raised to pay for duplicate new build parts of the rest of it.

60163 is not historical, it's making it's own history right now so they can afford to be a bit more conventional than as if it were an original artefact and think future historians wouldn't judge this harshly.

 

Why not 60163 one way on a run, and the P2 on the return, ultimate use of both, then vice versa, as tornado seems to be used on semi standard routes at the moment.

Im sure they will get away with a premium for that as well.

 

Broadly I agree but I'd question 6100 in that list. What is it famous for? Can't see it is any more significant than many other locos, and I suspect amongst the general public, hardly anyone would have heard of her.

I'd probably add "Stepney" to that small list of genuinely iconic locos that have their own "brand" - but whichever way you look at it, it is a very small list, and Tornado is one of very few locos that could genuinely be seen to be an icon in their own right.

Tom

 

Not an accurate measure of fame I accept , but Stepney was a pointless answer on the Beeb quiz as a 'Friend of Thomas' the other night.

 

You would be surprised how many people come up to an engine and tell you they've seen the 'Royal Scot' or something along those lines.

 

I think Royal Scot's only claim to fame (as far as the general public are concerned) is that it has "Scot" in its name so is sometimes confused with The Flying Scotchman.

 

I guess a for 6100 its 50/50 as to a claim to fame is that it went to America as did 6000 and 6229 but not many of the general public would be aware of that whereas 60163 although not yet been abroad, has more of an international fame due to her launch being shown world wide as well as the number of countries Top Gear is sold too and would have seen her on that.

 

Tornado off to Germany in 2014? Latest tweet from the loco indicating it could! Anyone know anymore?!!