Will The Manx Northern Railway ever re-open?

Bramblewick asked on the Tynwald frames thread just before it was locked: "On an almost entirely unrelated note, and undoubtedly a silly question, but is there any prospect of the MNR and its branches ever being relayed? Just wondering." So, I thought it fair that I answer the question.

In the short term no, but you never know what the future holds - who thought we would ever see the L&B and Welsh Highland and more nearer home to me, the Groudle Glen and Great Laxey Mines Railways. So anything is possible.

Large amounts of the trackbed still remain and make for a very pleasant, if sometimes muddy walk. Ramsey station, the old headquarter of the MNR has disappeared under a small industrial estate, a fate that has befell many old railways stations around the UK (can't say mainland hehehe).

There is probably more of a chance of the Peel - Douglas line re-opening, which has been mooted several times in the recent past but without success as a way to reduce traffic congestion into the capital from the west. It would be more a commuter line than a tourist line, and the fear is it would dilute the tourist traffic away from Port Erin. But again, the Port Erin can be run as commuter line too once you get the reluctant locals out of their cars and on to the trains.

The Peel line's trackbed is more or less intact too, and would require far less work to open than the old MNR line. If the Peel line was to re-open, the Ramsey line would be a more viable proposition as it would have its vital connection to Douglas via the Peel line at St Johns once more. However, the line would need far more capital spending on it to replace the two viaducts at Glyn Wyllin & Glen Mooar plus various other bridges on route.

Finally, even from the origins of the Isle of Man Railway, the route north to Ramsey was always considered the least viable, the most expensive to build with poor returns. It was the reason the IMR quickly ditched the Ramsey proposals and just opted for the Peel & Port Erin lines with more traffic prospects, hoping that somebody else would build the Ramsey, which the Manx Northern Railway did several years later. Eventually, the IMR got their Ramsey line in 1905 when they absorbed the MNR. Again, the bulk of the traffic needs to be mainly regular commuters to make it viable.

But never say never... when I was a teenager back in the late 70s, I use to walk these routes and the trackbeds of the Groudle & Laxey Mines railways daydreaming about them open and running again - now both Groudle & Laxey are back and running once again, so I am hoping that the same applies to the Ramsey line in my lifetime... !!

However, you will be able to get a hands on taste of the MNR next year when the IMR use ex-MNR Dubs built 0-6-0 loco 'Caledonia' for driving experience days - get your chance to drive a narrow gauge legend for yourself!!

I hope that answers the question...



Picture: A taste of the MNR - Caledonia on MNR train on the IMR's Port Erin line in 2009, but this shot could also be a similar section of line on the MNR between the Glen Mooar viaduct and the Berk bridge just south of Kirk Michael...

 

I'd urge everyone to visit Man at least once...I've done it twice and it's like another world, as close to Sodor as you'll find (expensive though)

 

Many thanks for the thoughtful and comprehensive answer, David.

 

Whilst it would be great to see the Peel and Ramsey lines re-opened I am just pleased that as much as the railway heritage has been saved and continues to operate as it does.

The station at Peel was a classic location next to the harbour and that is now part of the 'House of Manannan museum and associated carpark so I assume that would probably not be feasible as the terminus but an out of town Park and Ride type station might work. It would be interesting to know if any feasibility studies have been carried out to determine if there is the commuter volume there to warrant re-instatement?

 

The MNR would be unlikely to re-open in its entirity as a 'heritage only' line, the argument being that it would compete with the South line (however this could be disputed as for example the GGR and the LMR do not outcompete each other). However there is the feasability for a short length of track alongside a Manx Northern and Manx Electric Railway museum based in the North of the Island probably extending from Kirk Micheal to Sulby Bridge Station if support could be found from various quarters, some of whom have access to relevant artifacts, plus if MNH and the IOM Govt could be got onside to provide some of the financial input. There is even facilities in situ to provide secure stabling for a locomotive at Ballaugh (as the Goods shed still has its original cobbled floor with the rails inset). One of the issues however would be the presence of large sewage pipes running over the top of the bridges which would have to be slewed underneath or alongside to permit the passage of trains. Also as noted before there are several bridges plus the occasional issue of land ownership and a house in the way (though there is sufficient room for a deviation) which would increse the expenses for a full length reinstatement.

In terms of as a commuter line the feasability is greater, and it could be argueable at certain times of year the MNR's West Coast route would be better equipped to provide a far better quality service for the North West of the Island. For example during TT Week it can take some 2 1/2 - 3 hours to get from St John's to destinations such as Sulby, Ballaugh and Jurby, bus services terminate at Kirk Micheal and run no further - plus there is no bypass road. Also in bad winters the roads are often obstructed by snow. In addition getting to Douglas by Train was significantly faster than the current West Coast service provided by buses. Certainly areas earmarked for increased housing development were often served by the MNR in the past. One distinct difference between the North of the Island in 1879 and the North of the Island today is that there are greater population clusters around the villages, and more people commute to Douglas for work.

The problem comes that the Island has a very ingrained Car Culture, and before such a service could pay there would have to be incentives to use the railway and 'dis-incentives' would have to be put in place to discourage car use (for example cutting car parking and pedestrianising large parts of for example Douglas). In addition the public transport policy would have to be changed - so that smaller feeding buses would be used to bring passengers pretty much from their door to the railways, and to their final destination, and a one ticket for all system. It may be that a 'semi-light' railsystem with street running capability in built up areas such as Douglas and Ramsey might be preferable to a traditional "Heavy" railway set up - naturally such a system should include a heritage charter to allow the running of more traditional IMR stock on the appropriate parts of the system.

I'd argue that the best move to go about implementing such a system would be to pull the current bus services competing with the railway lines already in situ, instead utilising those buses to feed the railways from small villages nearby rather than running on a parallel competing route. Plus increase the disincentives for car use. Then when you can prove you can run a decent commuter service even with railway Locomotives from 1874, then you provide the evidence that railways can meet the transport needs of the Island and therefore are deserving of investment. In addition I'd suggest a 'free' (to residents) public transport system (as they pay for it via taxation anyway). In addition maybe diverting all school traffic onto the railways (it'll do them some good to walk to the station anyway).

Sadly I don't think there is sufficient drive and vision in the government at the moment to push such a radical move through. One factor to reflect on however is that whilst it is all well and good to use cost as an excuse not to reutilise the railway lines, there has probably been such a great level of expenditure on road schemes which fail to alleviate the main problems of congestion, which if more appropriately (in my view) spent could have gone a long way towards providing a decent railway system for commuters. Instead they go about using innappropriately sized buses and allow large articulated lorries to hammer along glorified cart tracks.

In terms of Peel I would argue that actually the house of Mannin doesn't provide an obstruction, if the road running along the harbour was aquired. You could run a diagonal loop either crossing the boat park area or running to the left (as opposed to the right) of the water tower and along the site of the harbourside road terminating at the main road, with the courtyard of the house of Mannin providing the access to a platform built on the location of the pavement alongside it. Though again if we're having a commuter system then arguably a station site somewhere slightly to the west of Peel Road on the MNR would be a better location to meet the needs of where Peel has its greatest population expansion.

Hmm maybe a private operator is what is needed?... anyone got Richard Branson's Number?...

 

Although straying somewhat beyond the remit of the National Preservation forum, I'd argue that we face exactly the same problem here in Great Britain, and doubtless in other countries too. For the sake of the environment, we need to encourage modal shift from road to rail wherever possible, but there isn't the political will to amke it happen.

Due to its small size, the Isle of Man could be an excellent "pilot scheme" to demonstrate that such modal shift could be made to happen. Implement high congestion charges or "road pricing" and people would then start to use public transport wherever possible. Money raised from road taxes could be use to help fund public transport improvements and/or subsidies. Successful implementation of such a scheme on the island could then pave the way for the UK and other governments to try to implement such measures on a much larger scale.

What's needed is a vocal pressure group...but, when non-railway enthusiasts love their cars so much, that will be difficult to organise...

 

One big benefit of the railway as a public transport system over the buses (at least on the IOM) is that they are better set up to deal with bicycles. As a matter of policy the buses are not allowed to carry bicycles (I can even recall on one occasion a bus driver objecting to an injured cyclist getting on his bus with a bike until it was explained that the casualty was injured - as it turned out with injuries to the casualty shoulder which stopped them from cycling and driving for a while) and needed to get back home and to the hospital (and naturally the casualty felt wasn't going to use the ambulance service when they had 'more important' things to deal with).

Whereas the railways on the other hand are more than happy to accomodate bicyles in either the luggage van/guards compartment/tram trailer (and I guess in the goods van if there was one attached to the train for the specific reason of carrying bicycles). Certainly an integrated rail and cycle network defeats many of the objections used against using both rail (distance too and from the station) and bicycles (too far to ride all the way). However in a similar way to using incentives to use public transport and disincentives to not using it there would have to be legislation in place to provide suitable facilities for cyclists to secure their bikes safely and get a shower and cleanup if necessary after their journey.

With regards to a commuter scheme on the South Line (run during TT week) such a move has been trailed with reasonable uptake, but certainly not sufficient to be totally persuasive that rail transport would be the preferred method of commuting at the moment. Had the Peel and Ramsey lines survived it would have been interesting to see how a commuter service during such a period would have been. My hypothesis is that it would be much greater - however sadly it's not possible to test this without being able to reopen the lines.

To put a counter questions, would enthusiasts from the United Kingdom, Eire and further afield be more drawn to visit the Island's railways if they were a complete system (with the exception of the Foxdale line which would be the 'least worthy' of the lines to reopen due to small population areas) with most of it's locomotive and rolling stock functioning (newbuilds to replace lost items) and whilst here would you ensure you rode on ever system or just take a journey on one of them? In addition what if the northern portion that system was a modern commuter focussed system with a 'heritage charter' to run historic trains at certain times of day?

 

I would certainly make the effort to ride on every line, as long as it were possible to do so behind steam (or "heritage" traction on the MER/SMR!).

 

Sorry to spoil the fantasy guys but none of the MNR lines are ever going to re-open. If they do I will publically eat my greasetop (complete with 40+ years of engine oil on it!) Try to look on it logically - the MNR lost money from the day it was built and that was before any road competition. What we have left is already subsidised by the Manx taxpayer to the tune of nearly a milion quid p.a. where do you think the reconstruction costs let alone operating losses are going to come from? Let's get out of la-la land, be grateful for what we've got and concentrate on what is achievable. As far as commuter traffic goes I do,however, believe that a Douglas to St.Johns Park'nRide using modern raicars would be a viable albeit heavily subsidized scheme for the future.Ray.