Bluebell Northern Extension - so what's occurring then?

What is the intention for signalling within EG area? I have read that colour light signals would be used throughout the extension controlled from Kingscote. I presume that these would need to be interlocked with the points at EG which are currently operated from at least two ground frames. Will point motors be fitted so that these can also be controlled from Kingscote? I believe a redundant signal box is being purchased to add atmosphere to EG Station. If the ground frames are being retained surely it would make sense to install rodding to enable all the points and associated signals to be controlled from an operational signal box at EG.

 

This has already been discussed at some length earlier in the thread, but in brief:

Billingshurst box - obtained for static display to enhance the railway "atmosphere" at EG, but with no signalling use - the actual use is still to be determined.

Signalling, phase 1: One engine in steam from KC to EG, with signals at KC being semaphores in the station area, but the down home and down home repeater (effectively the distant) being colour light where they are out of sight of the KC station area. Reason partly a lack of suitable signal machines, and partly due to the changeover from AC to DC track circuiting due to the proximity of the 3rd rail and earth leakage near EG.

Two token machines, one in Kingscote South box, and a slave unit on the KC platform (due to the remote location of KC South). Once a token is removed, it is one engine in steam from KC to EG. The token unlocks one of two ground frames: the south one (controls access to network rail) or the north one (controls the run-round points at the south of the station). No other signalling at EG apart from ground dummies controlling movements to / from Network Rail.

Signalling, future phases: Move functions of Kingscote (south) to the currently unused Kingscote (north). Possibly install signalling at EG to allow more than one engine in steam, but probably still controlled remotely from Kingscote.

See post 320 in this thread and then the next 4 or 5 pages.

Tom

 

Not just a lack of clay, but also due to detailed planning indicating that a triangle couldn't be constructed with a radius sufficiently shallow to be suitable for the largest / least flexible locos that might use it (e.g. big pacifies).

Occasionally a turntable becomes available, but there isn't a specific one in mind, nor a decision about build new or use an existing one. Given that a triangle is now off the agenda, I reckon a turntable has moved back into the realms of "would be nice one day" rather than a pressing concern. Given a likely cost of £500k or more, we have better things to spend money on - IMHO.

Tom

 

On the eastern side at the narrow point, the cutting side is rock and will remain as it is.

On the western side, it will be in part made of waste. My understanding is that, provided it is kept dry, the waste is surprisingly stable, rigid and can take quite a steep profile while maintaining its stability. So I think it will be waste, with a thick (> 1 metre) cap to stop water getting in from above and then profiled with a geotex membrane until the vegetation grows up to stabilise it. One of the current concerns, and the reason why there seems to be so much apparent movement of "stuff" is about trying not to break up the structure of the remaining waste too much, and ensuring that if some is moved, it is covered with clay again quickly to prevent it getting wet. Chris White mentions in the current Bluebell News that the waste can be profiled to "almost vertical" provided measures are taken to prevent water getting in.

Tom

 

Re: Bluebell atform runrNorthern Extension - so what's occurring then?

Not quite!

There are two ground signals, one operated from each of the two ground frames. One signals the exit from the Network Rail siding onto the Bluebell running line across the viaduct, the other signals the exit from the platform runround loop both back onto the running line or into the "cripple siding".

Chris

 

Thanks.

 

Dan, not a problem.

Realised I didn't answer your question about "where". Given that (IMO) a turntable is now more likely than a triangle, that means you need a basically flat, level area, at least 70 feet in diameter (probably a bit more) with solid foundations. Ideally, it should lead off an existing siding rather than a running line, so there is no additional signalling complexity. Needless to say, the railway doesn't have vast numbers of candidate sites lying around!

One possibility is the existing staff car park behind the loco works with a track leading off the current tram road; however, that actually slopes quiet significantly so would require a certain amount of building up. It is also possible that such space may be better utilised as a loco works extension when the time comes. That's probably the only possibility at SP without buying more land (e.g. in Woodpax). Kingscote is right out because it would go against the stated preservation aims of that station, and there is simply no space at EG.

So were I a betting man (I'm not) I'd suggest a location at Horsted Keynes, which operationally would be convenient - both as the main carriage maintenance site (a major use of a turntable would be for turning carriages to even out wear and tear) and as the likely destination of any incoming railtours (easier to "lose" 10-12 carriages there than at SP). One possible option is leading off the up sidings at the northern end of the station, which would be readily viewable from the picnic area. There is space (possibly with a bit of cutting back of the existing cutting), but I don't know enough about the geology to know if it is otherwise suitable, though I don't see why not.

Tom

 

Current figure for the Double Donation Dash is just past half way - £64,647 raised out of a target of £125,000. Remember, every £10 donation will be worth £22.50 to the railway if the donor is a UK taxpayer. Hopefully, (touch wood, crossed fingers etc etc) tomorrow should start to see any surge in donations as a result of Bluebell News arriving at the weekend.

If this, and the rescheduled track trek, are successful, they will be the last major funding pushes for the extension.

Donations can be made at www.justgiving.com/DDD125.

Tom

 

Thanks again Tom very interesting. Also its probably difficult to find space at Kingscote anyway as well as going against the aims of the station. I had a feeling Horsted would be more likely as the only other space I could think of was at the site of West Hoathly Station where the ballast is stored but wouldn't be seen by the public unless West Hoathly Station was restored which as far as I know is not a plan and would be quite expensive as well as a lack of suitable parking.

Also added some more of my money to the Extension by sending £100 with Gift Aid for DDD125.

 

I think West Hoathly would be more problematic than HK, because it would involve changes to signalling, though at least the site is flat. OK, you could do it I guess with a ground frame unlocked using the token, but that is still more complicated than a location at HK, so would add to what is already an expensive potential project. Plus there is always the possibility, eventually, that we'd want to reinstate a station there, so we wouldn't want to do anything that encroached on that space, especially as it is at least feasible that a re-instated station may not be quite at the same location as the original station.

Thanks very much for your donation; every pound gets us closer to EG. The total has gone up by another £310 (worth almost £700 to the project with doubling and gift aid) in the 1 3/4hrs since my last post...

Tom

 

Tom,
What about at the south end of of P-way yard at HK? Failing that how about just north of Leamland bridge?

 

North of Leamland bridge - not enough room I don't think, the line starts to go on an embankment there so you need to build the ground levels up a lot. Also, would inevitably introduce signalling complexity since you would need a point off the mainline and associated signals.

South end of P/Way yard - I think the clue is probably in the phrase "P/way yard": I don't think they (the P/W team) would want to lose the space. Though admittedly, that is probably the other site that on purely space and ground levels terms would be suitable, and would also have the advantage that a carriage could be shunted for turning from the C&W yard to the turntable without having to cross the mainline and, therefore, such shunting could take place on days when the railway was not otherwise in service and there was no signalman at HK.

Tom

 

Tonight's total is £77,630. With the doubling and gift aid that can be claimed, this makes the overall total £172k to the railway, against a target of £275k. So we are getting there. Hopefully there will be a surge of postal donations starting to come in now that Bluebell News has arrived.

On the ground, 240 feet of track was laid today at the north end, north of Hill Place Farm bridge (i.e. not into the cutting yet). Some photos from John Sandys, which also show the work at the south end of the cutting preparing the trackbed.

Also, there was a spectacular "before and after" photo of Hill Place Farm bridge in Bluebell News, showing just how much the ground level as raised. I hope it goes online at some point as it really shows just how teh ground levels have changed.

Tom

 

Just a shade over £15,000 raised today, bringing the total to £92,690, or 74% of the target with the end of the week still to go. I haven't seen an official figure for gift aid, but this probably puts us just over £200k when the doubling and gift aid are included.

As well as donating online, you can also donate by text - handy if you have spare credit on your phone, and this is the most cost-effective way to donate for small amounts.

To do so:

Text: BDDD99 £5

To: 70070

You can also donate £1, £2, £3, £4 or £10.

You will get a text you back to ask if you can gift aid the donation - please do! Incidentally, I have used this way to donate small amounts to the extension project on and off for months, and I have never received spam texts as a result.

Because JustTextGiving is sponsored by Vodafone, no charges are deducted, so the Bluebell receives 100% of your donation - so a £10 donation with gift aid is currently worth £22.50 to the railway. Even the text itself is free. So come on, "text for the tip" (or "SMS for sleepers", if you prefer...)

Tom

 

Well done Tom for spreading the info. My tenner is on its way

 

Yes, mine too. You have earned this Tom with your up front and helpful information. Do keep it up as I am sure you are earning much goodwill for the societies you support.

Much appreciated. Regards, Howard

 

Howard and Domeyhead, thanks for your comments and even more, thanks for your donations. Current DDD125 total is £102,688, or 82% of the target - about two pounds short of £10,000 raised since the same time last night. The mobile phone donations have been strong today! Due to delays in the production Bluebell News and receiving donations by post, the DDD125 has been extended until 2pm on Tuesday 6th November. This is to ensure off-line donations posted on 2nd November can be included. On-line donations will also be included up to this time.

As for the project itself, there was more tracklaying north of Hill Place farm bridge, inching closer to the cutting - I believe the plan was to lay another 90 feet of track. Photos from John Sandys here: NEP Photo Update, Thursday, 01/11/12 - a set on Flickr

Incidentally, this Sunday is a Vintage Bus Day, including the last day of running between Kingscote and East Grinstead - next year you'll be able to do the journey by train! There will also be service from Kingscote to the Ashdown Forest (100 Aker Wood of Winnie the Pooh fame) and Brighton - Lewes - Sheffield Park. All bus services free of charge; normal train running times and fares. More info here: http://www.bluebell-railway.com/event/vintage-bus-day/

Tom

 

Tonight's DDD total is £109,185, or £6,500 for the day. With Gift Aid and doubling that is just short of quarter of a million into the project coffers, with until Tuesday to try to hit the target of £125k - which should see a total of £275k raised.

On the ground, tracklaying continues north of the cutting, heading south - a few photos from John Sandys: NEP Photo Update, Friday, 02/11/12 - a set on Flickr

Tom

 

Looking at the photo update, just curious as to what the attachments to the sides of the rail in the foreground of some of the photos are and their purpose? They look like sections of fishplates but with only one bolt in them.

 

I think they are fishplates, if I am looking at the same objects you are.

The track panels were laid with 30 foot rails (the panels were the ones originally laid a year or more ago for the engineer's siding). However, after laying, the rails are being replaced with longer lengths (mostly 60 foot) for a better ride and to economise on fishplates (which are expensive). So I imagine that the ends were just held very lightly with two bolt fishplates only bolted to one rail, just so that a basic alignment could be established. Once the rails are swapped for the full length ones, they will be fixed together using proper four-bolt fishplates.

I'm not a p/way expert, but going by discussion of the job elsewhere, that I believe is probably the reason for what look like temporary short fishplates holding the rails together. No point fully bolting the rails together only to undo the job the following day!

Note also that the track isn't yet fully ballasted, but instead the sleepers are just laid on top of the sub-base.; the ballast to finish the job will I believe be coming in later by rail, which is one reason for doing the job north to south.

Tom