Fowler Tank

As stated in "Steam Railway Mag" there is Group currently conducting a feasibility study, looking at the possibility of building a new Fowler 2-6-4 Tank locomotive.

So far activity has consisted of researching the locomotive; its history and development etc, and most importantly creating a database of all the drawings required to build one.

As the Patriot project have discovered, LMS/MR drawings are very thin on the ground. The NRM has some but not enough, cross referencing with LMS 2500 has been done to an extent (you'd be surprised what is similar!), whilst the Fowler Tank also has a close relationship with the NCC WT "Jeep " which like 2500 could potentially fill in many of the gaps.

Some will question how useful would a Fowler Tank be, but I think the BR std 4 tanks will answer that one.

Right now we cannot say what the outcome will be, but we will certainly keep you updated.

Now if anyone would like to help get involved, or knows of the whereabouts of any drawings for the any of the Fowler, Stanier or Jeep Tanks please let us know. The sooner we have the information the sooner we can make a decision to build it.

Our e-mail address is; fowlertank @ hotmail.co.uk (remove spaces)

Our next task(s) is to cross reference the Fowler Tank with the NCC WT Drawing Register, which the RPSI are currently compiling. A small group of us our planning a visit over in 2013 to meet the group in person and get a closer look at No4. After that we shall see where the study takes us, but there will most definitely be a few more visits to the NRM.

We've already had a few responses in support of us, but there is a long way to go before we decide if it's worth cutting our first bit of metal.

 

Welcome. I'm sure someone is bound to read your first post and wonder about your lack of punctuation, so lets get that out of the way now!
I'm not going to ask you how you intend to fund this new build, because I guess you are not at that stage. Simply researching what drawings the NRM has is indeed a good start.
As far as similarity with the preserved 42500 is concerned, you are of course comparing a two-cylinder and a three-cylinder type, and one with a parallel boiler and one with a taper boiler, but I do notice that all the wheel diameters and spacing, and the overall lengths of each type are the same, so 42500 might just give you a starter for new general arrangement frame drawings if the originals are not available. The Fowler tank boiler was a superheated version, classified "G8AS", of that fitted to MR class 3 4-4-0's, and so dates from 1902.

Anyway, good luck with your research.

46118

 

Hi sorry about the punctuation ...will be more careful in future, such is a busy life etc.

The Fowler Tank presents itself in many forms with many improvements and modifications along the way, all of which makes you question which interpretation do you build?

You can't use the next number after 2424 as 2425 was the Stanier model.

Take the cab for instance Midland style cold draughty one, or the cosy Stanier limousine style.

Early pattern fowler wheels or the later Stanier ( same as 2500 ) wheels.

Water scoops and bogie brakes .....I think we can leave them out.

The later style Stanier rear bogie again identical to 2500.

Do you build it for mainline use ?

The NRM drawings that are available should be able to give us enough information to build the frames, tanks. cab. bunker and boiler, with a lot of CAD work.

The cylinders are interesting as number 2424 was built with a fabricated set....and the drawing exists.

Right now we are keen to finish the drawing search and gauge reaction and people views, all of which will determine where we go from there.

So far its very positive.

 

In many ways it would be lovely to see one again - which can of course be said of very many now-extinct classes.

What seems rather more likely to happen before too long, to my mind, is for the RPSI to overhaul NCC No.4 - remind me of the differences between it and the Fowler tanks in GB, beyond wheel diameter, front footplating and top feed?

 

The gauge?

I'll get my coat...

Tom

 

The livery ? - I'll get my coat as well !

Bob

 

It would easier to say what it the same.....

Boiler same G8AS modified.

According to the drawing registers there is quite a bit of motion that is the same.

Full research into the Fowler Tank/ WT Jeep connection has yet to be done and will undoubtedly involve a trip to the RPSI headquarters in Ireland.

The Drawing database has been sent to them

 

It's lucky you're teetotal!!

Say hello to Phil Lockett if you see him.

Tom B

P.S. was joking about the teetotal thing.....

 

the obvious "celebrity" Fowler tank would be 2313 which was named "the Prince" from 1928-1933.

 

Or how about 42394.....the only one ever to be painted BR green.

 

Or 42424? it is an easy No to remember, its the last in the class and also you said it had fabricated cylinders so would save you the price of casting cylinders.

But on a serious note, great idea and a loco i believe would be really suited to heritage railways. I really hope it comes off and who knows we might see a Patriot, Fowler 2-6-4t and a LNWR George line up one day.
Gav

 

Logically the group should aim for the final development of the class, which included Stanier mods, ie improved bogie, side window cab, outside steampipes etc, because what was always thought of as an excellent free steaming free running design "out of the box", would have been improved further in its final form.

As to main line running, isn't that nowadays just the addition of the electronic kit, because--and do correct me if I am wrong--the VAB acceptance requirements for a new-build dont differentiate between running on the main line or Heritage railways. One of the other new-build groups will surely just clarify this, but I am sure I read this somewhere in the 82045 newsletters or other info.

 

You could always goto scratchwood services and dig up the remains of 42325.
Would save a few drawings.

 

I thought someone would bring this up! Indeed, when I first saw this thread, my initial thoughts were that, rather than a new-build proposal, someone had come up with an excavation plan for this unfortunate loco.

 

Bit more on 42325 here from 3 years ago. Strangely I posted a further link to the forum in post 3, but it now does not seem to work.

http://railways.national-preservation.com/steam-traction/16556-fowler-2-6-4t-42325-a.html

 

The sad news in Railway Magazine today that parts of a Crab have been stolen raises in my mind whether the Crab boiler is the same as the Fowler boiler and whether therefore boiler and possibly other parts would have commonality and make the Crab a suitable donor, if its current owner feels that restoration is no longer practical.

 

Using wiki as a source, the LYR crab boiler is a descendant of (but not the same as) the LYR Hughes 4-6-4T / 4-6-0
The Fowler boiler is a different size and shape.
Even the cylinders / wheels are different sizes.
Two different historical railway company designs

LMS Hughes Crab - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

LMS Fowler 2-6-4T - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In many ways the Crab was the end of an evolutionary tree, and probably only came to existence as it was a big engine (the MR, and the now LMS CME, being a small engine mindset) so close to being ready off the drawing board at the 1923 grouping.. even then it lost it's LYR tender for the MR Fowler tender.
Many people judge LYR by it's preserved history and think of it as a line of 0-6-0's and Pugs.. when it had rivals to the LNWR in size such as the 4-6-0, 4-4-2 and 0-8-0..designs
It's a shame other LYR designs never came off the drawing board.. a 2-10-0 and a 4-6-2 design existed.. years ahead of their time.

 

The Crab 2-6-0 was a loco designed in LMS days by the Drawing Office at Horwich Works, to L & Y design standards. George Hughes was the CME of the LMS from 1923 to his resignation in 1925. It was only when Fowler took over as CME that the fiddling about began, prior to construction. The politics between Hughes and Fowler in 1925 about the Crab's design makes interesting reading. (LMS Locomotive Profiles No 2 The Horwich Crabs)

 

Interesting article about how the NCC tanks evolved from the Fowler tanks here:
http://www.steamtrainsireland.com/FFT/FFT28.pdf