LMS Hughes Crab 42859

A very sad saga indeed and completely unneccesary.

No matter how bad the remains are they should not be scrapped.

Stan

 

If they are unusable/damaged, would they still be of any use? I really can't see people queuing up to look at a bent and rusty bit of a steam engine.

Richard

 

If its that much of a state, is there anything worth merit salvaging for 42700 or 42765?

Chris

 

To rub salt into the wound there is a picture of it ex-works in 1962.
I mentioned nasty because it seems there was a physical assault involved.

 

There's a big difference inasmuch as 32424 is a recreation of a lost class, whereas there are already two preserved Crabs. It's hard to see any future for the remains of 42859 unless a very wealthy indiviual is both able to buy what's left and willing to invest a considerable amount of money in making an engine that will probably contain more new parts than any other ex-Barry restoration to date. It's all very sad, and one yet hopes that something may be salvaged, but I'm not raising my hopes.

 

Yes, but 32424 started with an original boiler in good condition, tender underframe (albeit needing modification, but fundamentally sound) and tender wheels; oh, and an original regulator handle! From the description you give (I haven't seen SR yet), that's actually a much better starting point than what remains of 42859 - and yet most people consider 32424 a new build, rather than a restoration.

Fundamentally, if anyone now wanted to restore the Crab, it sounds like it would be a new build in all but name: it would certainly be a considerably more extensive (and expensive) project than 32424. Realistically, with two Crabs already preserved, who in their right mind would want to new-build a third? because that is what any "restoration" of 42859 would be by the sounds of it.

Tom

 

Who would want to restore a blue king, or galatea when there are others in the class. There is always someone out there. How about saving what remains and donating it to a new build group who are good at fundraising. Lol.

 

Big difference is that there was still substantial useable original components from those engines. So even if quite major bits had to be made (for example, new driving wheels for the King), fundamentally there was a lot of original stuff that served as starting point, saved money and gave the finished product cachet as an "original" item, albeit restored.

Whereas by the description given earlier, it sounds like nothing remains useable from 42859. Given that point, everything would have to be built new from scratch. OK, at the end of it you'd have a useful and capable loco for use on any of the larger heritage lines, but realistically, if you thought you could raise the necessary money to build a new mid-size engine from scratch, wouldn't you choose something that doesn't have any surviving original sisters, rather than something that does?

It's desperately sad what has happened - but there comes a point when the money has run out: witness the few Bulleids knocking around unrestored; the GW 2-8-0s that can't find buyers; the 8F back to Israel because no-one over here wanted it enough to shell out the money needed. And, heretical as it may sound, there are other heritage railway items that are at risk, rarer and probably more deserving of whatever spare cash is floating around: many wooden bodied carriages, for a start.

Tom

 

Maybe 42859 could be restored together with a new tender in the style originally intended, rather than the Fowler tender, which just doesn't look right.

Bob.

 

I think we would all agree that there is plenty of scope for a third crab. The questions are (i) will this sorry saga be ended in a way that enables what is left of this engine to be secured for the future? and (ii) will someone (or some group) stump up the money for what will be, as Tom has pointed out, more of a new build than 32424? If the answer to both questions is yes, then fantastic, but this best case scenario, if it comes about, won't happen any time soon.

 

Being involved more in road steam now it is interesting to see what goes on over that side of the fence. The supply of unrestored rollers and engines that are more or less complete or have major components in good condition is more or less exhausted and some of the 'restorations' that are ongoing or completed revolved around a cylinder block! One engine featured in Old Glory a couple of months back (and was in steam at the GDSF this year) was rebuilt around part of the jib of its crane that was found and a steam Mann waggon recently featured as well was based upon the chassis rails that had been propped up against a barn!

 

The aeroplane restorers seem able to restore "genuine Battle of Britain Spitfires" from not much more than an engine bulkhead dug out from a 15 feet down in a field - or so it seems. Having a works number seems the key criterion!

But I still come back to the original point: regardless of whether you call this a new build or a restoration, the cost will be the same as if it was a new build. And it is hard to imagine what the attraction would be to a potential funder of the project when the end result won't be unique, and there are already so many other new build and restoration projects clamouring for attention. It would take a person - or group of people - who up to now has not been inspired by any of the existing locomotive projects, to suddenly think "we'll stump up a million or so for a mid-size humble mixed traffic engine of which several others already exist". Sounds unlikely to me.

Tom

 

Judging by at least one post above at least some of the worthwhile parts are already on 42765...

 

and have been for some years!!

 

Just thinking about it (and going completely off-topic), if we took all the various parts that have been on other locos and used them as a basis for rebuilding, we would have a sizable fleet of ex main line locos! Alberta would live again, for a start!:dance:

 

And 60026 Miles Beevor.

 

I am almost certain there is a component on 46203's tender which is stamped 6202.

 

When working on the Jinty that used to be at the Mid Hants I noted down on a scrap of paper the numbers of 40 plus locos stamped into various parts of the loco, mainly the wheelsets.
A result of the policy when entering works of stripping down and refurbishing standard parts.

 

Just going back to an earlier post from Jimc relative to parts for 42765 and 42700, would this not comprise wheelsets, cylinder blocks and--if not already missing-axleboxes, and let the rest RIP. 42700 is a static restoration for now, but anything that can go into "stock" to prolong the working life of 42765 should be secured, subject of course to inspection as to condition. It might be there is nothing of real use, sadly.

 

Just read the Beano article and very depressing reading. The wheels and axleboxes - where they actually gassed up or have they been removed somewhere? The Beano article stated rent had been paid up until August 2012 so therefore there wasn't a rent issue so possible litigation against the people who have done this?

Another 8f pony truck wheelset needed...