1501 - Unsteady at speed?

Something that interests me. Contemporary accounts of the WR 1500 class almost always seem to mention that the class was unsteady at speed because of the short wheelbase. OTOH I've never seen such reports from the Severn Valley. Of course I may just not have seen them, or is it that the 25mph limit is below the speeds at which this unsteadiness occurs?

 

I've never heard of / experienced 1501 riding unsteadily, when she entered traffic in 1997 for the first time in preservation, everyone seemed pleasantly surprised at the quality of the ride, thoughts of it being a track-basher were also quashed at the time.

 

I had a ride behind this loco in around 2001 and I remember that there was a pronounced fore-and-aft motion which made the journey a most uncomfortable one. Apart from that I cannot comment on any 'unsteadiness' of the engine itself.

Regards

 

a good excuse for photos of this great engine fellers....

 

To be fair, the fore/aft shuffling is a symptom of quite a few loco's/designs, 4160 being the worst offender in my experience.

 

I suspect that may be the answer - 25 mph probably isn't fast enough for the loco to become unsteady.

 

I remember John Robinson saying that, prior to its first entry to traffic, he had expected it to waddle badly, but was pleasantly surprised at how steady it was.

 

A 1970's printing of the SVR stock book I have (no I was not arround at the time) says 1501 was not intended for normal service use and would be a shunter only as it was expected to be totally unsuitable for passenger use.

 

I've no experience of riding behind 1501 but it sure looked good yesterday on the SVR Santas....
Clive Hanley Photography | 15 December 2012. SVR Santas 3 | Photo 1

This shot shows 1501 putting on a fine performance hauling 9 carriages. It was a pleasant surprise to see 1501 being used. Made me think that bringing ELR's Stanier black 5 down to cover it's failure was possibly not necessary. I'm certainly not complaining though as it's been a while since the end of 45110's boiler ticket.
Clive Hanley Photography | 15 December 2012. SVR Santas 3 | Photo 1

 

Without 44871 there's no spare engine for the Santa services.

 

I believe that the 15xx were unsteady at speed in BR days because of their short wheelbase.However following the restoration in the ealry days at Bewdley I think this was addressed with the tightening up of the axle box clearances.I'm sure someome of the restoration team can shed some light on this .Still a lovely loco with a nice new paint job,ideal for any preserved line.

 

Fore and aft movement is usually a symptom of notching up too early. I'd be more interested in finding out if 1501 "walks" up the track, which is more of a symptom of outside cylinder locos, and if the shorter wheelbase makes this more pronounced. The outside cylinder praries have a very nice rock to them. 3650 received several compliments on her ride when at the SVR as the flat cab pannier they's experienced tended to get into a galloping bounce! Wonder if that's the same with 1501?

 

Well in theory it's the combination of short wheelbase AND outside cylinders, so the back and forth motion is further outside the centre of gravity than with an inside cylindered engine, thus giving a leverage effect with each cylinder stroke.

Most steam engines tend to rock around a bit anyway, but some have a tendency. The O4 does it a bit as well.

 

The spring arrangements on a 15xx are not like a 57xx/8750 in that there are no coil springs in the cab (it is all leaf springs) so the ride is different. 1501 does not shoulder from side to side the pronounced way a 45xx does when notched up too far as often seen.

 

44871's visit had been planned and confirmed before 1501's failure. As Neil says, 44871 was brought in to cover 2857's slot. You need 5 engines for SVR santas, one dedicated steam heat, but that's tight as it means every loco must run round at Kiddy and take water in a limited time. With six, one already at Kiddy takes the train out leaving plenty of time for the incoming loco to take water and get ready for its next trip.

 

I have had a number of runs behind 1501 and it is one very fine machine. It is exceptionally powerful, has a startling acceleration and will walk away with just about anything the SVR could throw at it. Indeed I think it pulled some serious weight at a photo charter at a steel works during it last ticket which raised more than a few eye brows at the time. Whether it is unsteady at speed; well I have had a couple rip roaring runs behind her, particularly on gala shuttles and she very steady on them, what speed was achieved I couldn't possibly say..

 

The ride on 1501 is lovely. More comfortable than 4566 at the best of times. if you watch any videos you will see the big heavy front end dipping in and out of rail joints.

 

Absolutely correct, Pannier Man. I was going to weigh in with the same until I read your comment. I was one who thought 1501 would be a rough ride because of its short wheelbase and was pleasantly surprised to find that it was very smooth indeed. As has been mentioned, it has oodles of power: I saw them at Paddington, backing on to 14 or 15 bogies that a King had brought in from the West Country and just walking away with them to the carriage sidings. My only criticism of it is that you can't get away from the fire. It's bloody hot! - but, it is great to work on and a doddle to prepare, compared to a 57XX class Pannier.