Red Ties on Railwaymen

I have come across assertions by various people in the movement that it was common, even obligatory practice amongst railwaymen to wear a red tie to give them something to wave in an emergency.

I find myself skeptical, mainly because any railwayman worth his salt will know the emergency stop handsignal, and any driver worth his salt will respond to this appropriately.

Moreover, in the very occasional colour photograph or film from the 50s/60s I have never seen red ties being worn by staff (in the 60s no tie at all as often as not).

So, can anyone provide documentary evidence that wearing a red tie was recommended/obligatory on any of the pre and post-grouping railways?

 

I thought the wearing of anything red when trackside was forbidden?

 

That also applies to yellow and green in any location where they could be mistaken for (hand) signals.

 

It seems to be common practice today for suvvern loco crew to wear a red neckerchief on heritage railways. Don't know if it was the case in the quondam days, though. A lot of drivers would wear a tie but very rare to see a fireman doing so. I think colour would be down to personal choice (or politics!)

 

In the dusty recesses of my brain, I have a vague recollection that it might have been a requirement for crews in the very early days of railways; either Brunellian or Stephensonian in origin. The objective, in the days of time interval working, being to provide an emergency red flag if you broke down in section (in the absence of anything else - though how effective it would have been, I don't know). With more sophisticated signalling systems, and the invention of detonators, the need for such would obviously have diminished.

I'm away from my library at the moment, but when I get back I'll see if I can find a reference - "Red for Danger" might have something as a starter.

Tom

 

Just found this document held by the NRM:

"The Supply of Red Neckerchiefs to Certain of the Uniform Staff" issued by the LSWR in 1885. Sadly the original isn't online, but at least there is a reference to the fact that a document was produced on this subject. From the title alone, it is not clear just who amongst the staff were eligible or required to wear such clothing. Presumably the LSWR wasn't alone in issuing this sort of instruction.

See Collections Online - Objects - I'd assume the NRM could provide a copy?

Tom

 

The quest continues...

The reason, if you were wondering, of my thinking of this today was a visit to the MHR, where red ties are practically uniform.

 

I'm not sure that a red neckerchief is essential uniform for Southern heritage railway enginemen, it's certainly not on the IOW. My impression is that it is mainly a Bluebell thing, not sure where they took their lead from.

Casey Jones (in the 1960s TV series) wears a neckerchief which could be red, a job to tell in B&W!

 

Red ties were adopted as part of the British Railways (Southern Region) uniform following nationalisation in 1948. My understanding is that BR management wanted ties to be blue in colour as per the other regions. But because Brighton Works was back in the 1950s a stronghold of British communism, it became a political issue between management and the millitant railway trade unions. Management finally conceded the issue and red ties were adopted on the SR.

On the Bluebell, uniformed staff have the option of wearing either red or black ties.


Chris

 

Dont how that applies at southern! All our overalls are green. Though we do wear hi-vis too obviously.

 

When going with 1830s replica train operation red neckerchiefs are worn (along with white trousers, white shirts and black waistcoats!)

Duncan

 

There is no current rule which restricts the wearing of red, yellow or green by railway staff. I've also never found any trace of any similar rule in rulebooks dating back to the 1940s. I think its mostly a modern thing that has cropped up on preserved lines.

 

staff on the big railway wear what they are issued with, virgin have nice big red coats, some companies issue yellow shirts. nout in the rule book about colours anymore (if there ever was). signalmen don't even give you a yellow anymore.

 

My uniform is a nice 'Facing Point Lock' blue. Not sure what you mean about not getting a yellow anymore?

 

I had never thought of the Mid Hants as a bastion of Communism. Maybe Bob Crow has a weekend cottage in the area, and has some influence. Perhaps the booking office at Alresford takes North Korean currency?

 

I don't think it was ever in a rule book. However, I remember in my Talyllyn days being told that it was not sensible to wear red/yellow/green shirts or pullovers as they might be mistaken for a flag. The TR used flags at crossing points instead of fixed signals. I guess it was a good job that red petticoats weren't banned, as well, Poor Jenny wouldn't have known what to do!

Like Neil, I'm intrigued by the statement thar signalmen don't give a yellow any more, too.

 

I don't think that feudal state is communist in anything but name...

Anyway, thank you for all the help gents, and do keep it coming if more occurs. It is nice to confirm that there is a historical precedent for red ties on the MHR.

Regarding the discussion on colours near lines, it is advised against in at least one heritage railway PTS I am aware of.

 

Re colours and PTS' the Mid Hants PTS does mention this too, but more specifically wrt hi-vis clothing. I know that when I am lineside I do not wear a red jumer or t-shirt, although at least one of my hi-vis vests is long sleeved so hides the colour underneath.